Summary of Bottlenecks Solved
Bottlenecks are an issue within any business and inside any industry. These issues are never easy to solve, but there are always solutions. Inside the hemp and cannabis industry there are many potential areas in the process that can lead to bottlenecks. Fortunately for this industry, extraktLAB has created a solution to these problems with the igwLAB.
igwLAB is a GMP-compliant, specialized manufacturing execution and quality tracking system (MES) built specifically for the cannabis industry. The igwLAB provides information to help manufacturing decision makers understand how current conditions on the plant floor can be optimized to improve production output. igwLAB software was designed to help extraction facility operations manage material and information flow. The process of extracting hemp biomass into CBD or CBG oils requires extraction equipment, distillation equipment, and formulations operations to finish goods such as vapor pens or CBD pills. The software includes thirteen unique individual modules that guides operators, quality managers, and laboratory personnel through the production process. The software creates master batch records for each step in the process so that maximum traceability can be achieved and easily reported on.
In this episode of extrakTALKS, Dr. Jon and Randall Thompson discuss all the potential bottlenecks that hemp and cannabis processors may face and how the igwLAB has the potential to solve these issues. From the first steps of receiving biomass down to distillation and product formulation, bottlenecks are no more with this extraktLAB solution.
LISTEN to this episode:
[04:25] Hemp Processing Steps
[06:41] Solvent Removal
[07:18] Hemp Processing Steps (slide)
[20:18] Where are the Bottlenecks?
[39:01] Operator Bottlenecks
[46:33] MES – mistake proof your process
[49:52] Value of LIM system
[50:27] Hemp Processing Steps (slide)
[57:48] Hemp GMP Requirements
[68:18] Final Words
Randall Thompson 00:23
Hey, welcome. All right, welcome. Thank you for being here. You guys are awesome. Thank you for all the pre questions pre questions are in. And we’ve got a lot of very interesting bottleneck questions,
Dr. Jon 00:36
bottlenecks like long necks, yes long neck bottlenecks
Randall Thompson 00:39
long neck long horn bottlenecks and like, absolutely, thank you for being here, by the way. And this week’s winner, I’m gonna announce that right away. One of our fans on Instagram D Parker won a DrainDroyd hoodie DrainDroyd hoodie for taking the calculator quiz.
Dr. Jon 00:57
Randall Thompson 00:58
Dr. Jon 00:59
Randall Thompson 01:00
Isn’t D Parker and author?
Dr. Jon 01:02
Don’t know is it isn’t spelled D E E?
Randall Thompson 01:04
Dr. Jon 01:05
Randall Thompson 01:06
D Parker. Sweet. It’s not just a the letter D. Dee Parker DrainDroyd hoodie. And that kind of matches the name? Yeah. Another dee dee dee dee. Dee DrainDroyd. Right. Okay. Thank you for being here. No Holds Barred lots of questions. Thank you for bringing them in already. We’re going to have a lot of polls today.
Dr. Jon 01:26
Yeah, it’s gonna be great. Yeah. We, we we basically have all the answers to the three questions that we asked. Within that normally, we’re working very, very hard.
Randall Thompson 01:41
It’s everything’s on the fly. Hey, by the way, if the screen freezes up, just hit the button to refresh on the top. It doesn’t take you out doesn’t bring anything. It’s going to be good. So do that. We got lots of resources. Our live tour CBD jam session, advanced extraction guide. We’ve got other guides now.
Dr. Jon 02:00
Randall Thompson 02:01
Dr. Jon 02:01
Yeah, we have a solvent removal guide.
Randall Thompson 02:03
Dr. Jon 02:04
Come Come see it on our website. Yeah,
Randall Thompson 02:06
check it out. Extraktlab.com EXTRAKT. I like tea. Do you like loose leaf tea or the bag tea?
Dr. Jon 02:21
I like I like the oolong tea.
Randall Thompson 02:23
I love long. Long is really good. Like that’s a good Chinese a loose leaf. That’s like a dragon T.
Dr. Jon 02:30
Randall Thompson 02:30
It is good. Okay, sorry. Yes. Extrakt, extraktlab.com go there. Lots of resources. calculators we are you guys are lighting up the calculators. We got many courses coming more coming. We still have to think about our topic for next week.
Dr. Jon 02:50
We’ll make it up on the fly,
Randall Thompson 02:52
which is what we do all the time. Anyway. We just make all this stuff up. And that’s good. Oh, I’ve got the interesting keywords. That’s good. We can we can we can run through those.
Dr. Jon 03:05
Randall Thompson 03:06
Dr. Jon 03:06
Randall Thompson 03:07
Dr. Jon 03:08
Well, because they’re not relevant to what we’re talking about.
Randall Thompson 03:10
Oh, why don’t we use them while we’re while we’re in there?
Dr. Jon 03:13
Yeah, but it’s more fun to do it all at the same time. If you gave him all the keywords up there, that he would just say all the keywords and it just wouldn’t work.
Randall Thompson 03:22
LIMS. MES, QMS, GMP process validation.
Dr. Jon 03:26
All right there you did it. You get a gold star gold.
Randall Thompson 03:29
Right off the top. We don’t have to mention them ever again. That’s right.
Dr. Jon 03:33
kind of. Yeah, we’ll use them.
Randall Thompson 03:37
Alright, bottlenecks solved. Alright, that’s what we’re going to talk about today. I think so. And what I like is that you’ve got tables.
Dr. Jon 03:46
Randall Thompson 03:46
Dr. Jon 03:47
Randall Thompson 03:48
Dr. Jon 03:48
Not this time. No tables. Absolutely. No preparation,
Randall Thompson 03:52
Red Letter day. Red Letter day. That was restraint. Right there. No tables. Now? I do know you have a presentation though. Um, just a couple slides.
Dr. Jon 04:05
Yeah. Just Well, just a couple slides. I think mostly I just asked some questions. Yeah. And then we’ll gonna respond and walk through some of the answers. Okay. What I can do is kind of, you know, kind of preface it, I think with with this particular slide here, we got hemp processing slide. And what we’re going to be talking about today is, you know, different bottlenecks within this process. What you guys are seeing as bottlenecks. What’s important with those bottlenecks, so, why don’t I just kind of walk through it? Right.
Randall Thompson 04:39
Yeah. And I think that’s good. And, you know, when you have questions, you know, put them in the chat, introduce yourself, by the way, tell us who you are and where you where you are, whether you’re a farmer, processor, engineer, chemist, investor, entrepreneur, wherever you are, and then get your questions in early because we go through them and keep asking because We turn those into FAQs.
Dr. Jon 05:02
Yeah, we do
Randall Thompson 05:02
we get we get answers for your questions all over the place. So let’s do that. Let’s jump in. Because I think bottlenecks are a critical component. I talk to people every day about where the issues are. Right. And I think walking through this slide, this flow is perfect. Right.
Dr. Jon 05:19
Okay. Well, let’s let’s do it. I mean, when you talk to people, what do you think their number one bottleneck is? From your, from your, you know, your discussions that you have?
Randall Thompson 05:29
Well, other than me?
Dr. Jon 05:32
Yeah. Other than, you
Randall Thompson 05:36
actually in in the process flow?
Dr. Jon 05:38
Randall Thompson 05:38
I think the biggest one is testing, because there’s a lot of people who still have to wait for their tests don’t have in house testing. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, yeah. But that’s kind of an overarching thing that’s less about the process and more about the validation, so I can move forward.
Dr. Jon 05:53
Randall Thompson 05:54
So that’s the biggest bottleneck,
Dr. Jon 05:55
we’ll hit on testing for sure. I mean, you know, you know, testing is one of those things where you, you know, you typically have a sample. And since you can’t get, you know, an answer right away, you’re always sitting there waiting in, if you send it out to a secondary laboratory, you know, how long you’re waiting?
Randall Thompson 06:10
Dr. Jon 06:11
shipping, they’re shipping back, plus the shipping queue, the test queue, all that stuff. And then you know, you’re talking maybe a week later that you get the answer.
Randall Thompson 06:18
Absolutely. And the other two places that I’ve heard a lot about a slowdown is that decarb
Dr. Jon 06:24
Randall Thompson 06:25
the activation portion of that. So at decarb, because it takes a while to get everything ready for the oven. And then yeah, out and get it to cool down and stuff. We’ve got options for that. And then the other piece is at solvent, solvent removal removal.
Dr. Jon 06:42
Randall Thompson 06:42
Dr. Jon 06:43
So many people are using rotovaps.
Randall Thompson 06:45
rotovaps are slow
Dr. Jon 06:47
Oh, yeah. That’s a big bottleneck.
Randall Thompson 06:48
Dr. Jon 06:49
Randall Thompson 06:50
Dr. Jon 06:57
Yeah, I’m turning them down on you. He can’t have a Monday. Okay, so let’s go through the different steps, we have a pre processing step, extraction, step post processing and and products. Okay. Very easy, right.
Randall Thompson 07:12
And people love going through this, because you’ll always miss something. And, and I talked to people at all stages of this. And then we they have stories about what’s going on in each element of pre than extraction, and then post, right, so good.
Dr. Jon 07:16
Yeah. So I think I think receiving is a really important part of it
Randall Thompson 07:32
Dr. Jon 07:33
yeah, basically, because that’s where you’re setting up everything, you’re controlling the input of everything that’s going into your facility. So a lot of times, there’s bottlenecks there, because oftentimes, you know, when someone has some product, they’re bringing it in, usually, it gets stuck in quarantine there for a while until you get results back that says, hey, this is okay for you know, for you to move on into your system. So, you know, typically the process of receiving would be, you know, receiving everything in weighing it all into your IGW lab system. And then you would barcode all the different batches, so that one one batch would be the entire shipment, obviously, but if you wanted to barcode, the different bags, and everything, you could do that within the IGW. So that that’s one aspect of it. But that’s the receiving process. And typically, you would go through things like okay, you would record a lot of different things at that you’d record who the farmer is, who you were, or what the address was, what their license was, you’d want to make sure that you had all of the information related to, you know, the, you know, all of the potency that they said it was a lot of times it comes with a certificate of analysis, you receive,
Randall Thompson 08:49
Dr. Jon 08:50
but verify, yeah, and then you take your, you’d have your QC people come in, they would take their own samples of what’s in receiving, they would send those off to the lab, or they would go ahead and then test them. And then after those results come back, your quality assurance person would then release it from quality released from quarantine. So that’s everything that goes on in in receiving and you want to make sure that you record, you know, all kinds of different things, you want to make sure that you record the who did who did the receiving, right, you want to make sure that you understand that the weights of the scales that you were using were have all been calibrated and they be cleaned properly and that they are fit for fit for commerce essentially
Randall Thompson 09:32
Dr. Jon 09:33
You know, if you don’t have that you don’t have that data, you could be using an uncalibrated scale, which would then you know, rise to the level of maybe kind of calling into question your results, right? So you want to make sure that you’re having everything set if you have in also you want to have an appropriate size scale in that very beginning of the receiving so I’m waxing a little bit on receiving here, but not for any good reason. But you know if you have no
Randall Thompson 09:58
I think it’s for very good. Reason, actually, because as you come as it comes in, I mean, that’s, that’s the critical moment they start everything.
Dr. Jon 10:05
Yeah, it does. It starts everything I mean we have. Okay, so here’s a, here’s another thing that you need to think about. I mean, okay, so a lot of people, I’ve seen these around like a two ton scale, okay? Well, if you’re measuring 100 pounds with a two ton scale, you have plus minus zero, maybe five pounds on that, okay? So add round in your gets a bad rounding error, and it could be a randomly, you know, up or down from that. So you want to make sure that your scales that you size are size for the input of the bag that you’re you’re going to be weighing. So for example, if it’s cannabis, you know, typically, you know, if you’re buying trim, for example, you maybe have, you know, maybe 50 pounds a bag or something that comes in it, sometimes it comes in and like these, you know, trash bags? Oh, yeah, well, so you don’t need to have a huge scale for that, right. But if you’re doing, like super sacks for hemp, that’s different story, you know, that’s maybe 150 pounds, you know, 200 pounds, depending on how it’s ground up.
Randall Thompson 11:02
Dr. Jon 11:02
So you want to have the right sized scale for that. Okay. And, and you want to make sure the scales all calibrated and everything, once you get done with the receiving, obviously, you’re going to go into some potency testing, which I just talked about. And then you’re going to go into some, you’re going to go into grinding. Okay, so right in here is where that quarantine step takes place. And that’s where you really have to have to, you know, have your quality assurance and in this where you get all of your data in on your lots and all that stuff. So this is where it’s all the fun.
Randall Thompson 11:34
You didn’t mention the QC test.
Dr. Jon 11:36
Randall Thompson 11:36
So when you do that you send that out to get your pesticides and
Dr. Jon 11:40
unless you have something in house, yeah. And then yeah, you want like, for example, you don’t, you don’t want to release anything into your facility that has, you know, contamination.
Randall Thompson 11:50
Dr. Jon 11:50
So you’re going to want to make sure that you understand if it has bugs, mold, you’re going to want to understand if it has, you know any what the moisture content, you’re going to want to make sure that you gave specially if you’re going to store it right. What else you’re going to have to make sure that it’s not metals in there.
Randall Thompson 12:06
Dr. Jon 12:07
And also pesticides is a big one. If you if you allow the pesticide ridden material to go all the way into your system, then your grinder and all the stuff that can be potentially contaminated. Or anything downstream could be potentially contaminated.
Randall Thompson 12:21
You don’t want that. And now we’ve you know, we’ve if if it does turn it away, right? Yeah. Just Say No, can’t accept this.
Dr. Jon 12:29
Right. Right, exactly.
Randall Thompson 12:30
And it’s not and you can’t do that with potency testing. Most of the people that I talked to don’t have a GC headspace or the ability, even with an HPLC. To do there’s a there’s an additional adder to get to do your own pesticide. And
Dr. Jon 12:45
yeah, you have to have a, what’s called a mass spectrometric detector.
Randall Thompson 12:51
Say that five times real fast mass spectrum mastic detector. So, but I think that that’s critical to either add, but even then, don’t you really want to send that out to a third party to have that test done?
Dr. Jon 13:07
Well, if you have your own methods, you can use your own methods as long as they’re validated. Okay. So, you know, you can send it out your for testing out a third party, but then they should match. Yeah, you know, and if they don’t match, you want to find out why they don’t
Randall Thompson 13:25
Okay, and I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to take us down that rabbit trail by the way. We did do another podcast on testing.
Dr. Jon 13:32
Randall Thompson 13:32
And so go to that podcast, it’s on our YouTube channel, right or you can get there through our blog and on our website so get there right that’s that was a really we spent a lot of time on I
Dr. Jon 13:43
think yeah, we also spent some time on hemp processing there’s a whole bunch of stuff in there on testing in our hand process perfect. So yeah, good. So anyway, there you go. You got you got your grinding and then you have your ground material that comes out of that and then of course it goes into this or anyone else I do this.
Randall Thompson 14:02
Yeah, when you said grinding I’m like
Dr. Jon 14:07
alright take these things away. Just I’m kind of jealous. I think we should switch this thing around so I have access to them
Randall Thompson 14:19
I’ll share I I graduated kindergarten I’ll share
Dr. Jon 14:24
Okay, okay, so you got your raw material and then that goes into the vacuum oven the decarboxylation ooven Okay, and this is an optional step you can decarboxylate after extraction just before distillate Wow,
Randall Thompson 14:40
what was that?
Dr. Jon 14:41
a T rex got out.
Randall Thompson 14:43
Dr. Jon 14:44
Randall Thompson 14:44
that’s so sweet
Dr. Jon 14:45
We’ve been growing them back there. They grow twice as fast.
Randall Thompson 14:49
You know, we might have to hire some people. T rex got out.
Dr. Jon 14:55
Okay, where was I? Oh, yeah, you can you can decarboxylase hiring after distillation or just before distillation, excuse me, and, or you can do it in the vacuum oven decarboxylation on your ground material. The advantage to doing it before you’re extracting and before your, you know, distilling or anything like that, it’s just, it’s just a really great way to harvest those terpenes prior to, you know, doing anything to the place. And so you’re really getting a lot of those great flavors, and it’s preserving them. So that’s a really good reason to do. You know, vacuum oven decarboxylation. So, yeah, and our just take some extra equipment. And yeah,
Randall Thompson 15:40
and our decarb lab, our activation lab, there’s a lot of add ons to that vacuum oven special seals, the venting piping, the cold trap, piping, everything, right. And by the way, we I hear a lot of people break the handles because they really want to crank out.
Dr. Jon 15:59
Well, that’s for that’s for our smaller size piece of equipment, but we also use that gemco for the larger stops on maker. Yeah, so the popcorn maker is a big one, that’s like 100 pounds of popcorn,
Randall Thompson 16:10
we still have to do that we keep threatening to do that,
Dr. Jon 16:12
oh, we’re gonna do that one day.
Randall Thompson 16:13
But I do agree. I mean, and that’s a big place. And we have special, we have custom made pans. So the vacuum ovens that we use, and most of you guys are using, have the five shelves, and some of them have heated shelves, some of them have heated sides. But we have a three and a quarter inch pan that’s divided, that allows you to get maximum to maximize your throughput, which is really nice. And again, coming back to because I mentioned this is one of those bottlenecks. That’s why we have that supersize pan, and you want to have a separate set of those ready to go primed and ready so that when it gets done decarbing you can pull that out and do it and and we’ve got a couple of other steps. We should talk about activation lab at some sure do I think we could do a whole session on that.
Dr. Jon 16:59
Yeah, we could do that. Um, you know,
Randall Thompson 17:01
and then talk about the TerpTrap
Dr. Jon 17:02
I think we copy, copy that with like, number one, we we talked about what’s happening to the molecules, what you know, and why you would why you want to do it in the first place. And then what equipment you’d use? Yeah, we can do that. And then what are the products that you get out of it? We can sample some, we can sample some terpenes.
Randall Thompson 17:21
Like, he points at me when he says we can sample, because usually I’m the guinea pig. But I love that because even grinding at a different size before decarb. And then what you’re grinding to after the car. Yeah, key and what you do. So that would be very cool. Yeah, I keep taking us down these rabbits trails
Dr. Jon 17:40
no problem, no problem at all. So I’m just going to go through that really quick then typically, after potency. Okay, so there’s different types of testing, right? What one kind of testing that you would do is like in process testing, so you would just do that for measuring your process. Okay, you want to know, okay, is my process performing the way I think it should. The other type of testing is typically used for, you know, qualifying a final product, like, Okay, I have a gummy bear. And I want to make sure that my, the concentration of CBD in there is actually matching my claim labels. So that would typically be a third party that you would do. So there’s just there’s kind of two types of testing that you would do. In the case of the vacuum of testing right after here, what you’re looking for is you’re making sure that the conversion from a acid CBD or an acid, THC to a neutral has completed. So that’s what you would do there with the 140. Essentially, there you’re doing the extraction, and then you have the waxing. And then you have some co2 oil. And, and basically, that’s where you get your co2, and you have ethanol in there. And this is where, really where you’re getting a lot of action related to, you know, trying to remove all the solvents that are in there. So that’s why you know, that’s why people do winterization. And then after winterization, you go into your rotovac, of course, you’re trying to remove all those solvents, and then into distillation, which is where you get all those nice honey oils. And then isolation, which is a couple different ways to do that. You can either crash it out, or you can get a broad spectrum distillate which you would get from chromatography, and then you would package it and each one of these things can be used, you can see in different types of end products. So that’s kind of the overall overarching view of what what it is that we have.
Randall Thompson 19:39
I love this chart. This chart works very well we I go through this a lot multiple times a day with people in and out of the business. And it’s a good reminder of where you are and what the steps are
Dr. Jon 19:54
Randall Thompson 19:54
and how and where it’s a good reminder of where your bottlenecks are. So it was every action Don’t have restraint for me, just so you know, when you mentioned gummies. And you didn’t say that I could sample those. To bring that up, I muted myself so that I wouldn’t take us down another rabbit trail you’re getting through that.
Dr. Jon 20:14
And so here we are
Randall Thompson 20:15
super sacks. Super sacks. Yeah.
Dr. Jon 20:17
I mean, what you have here is just a, you know, that’s where you have a big bottleneck there, right? We’re trying to get all that stuff. We received it into the garage door back here. And we’re, we’re forking it around and trying to get it into our inventory. This is this, this actually is a very old picture of some of the stuff that we get in. But the other thing is we have, we’re an organic facility, you know, organic certified USDA, so everything coming into us has to be you know, certified organic, so it doesn’t have any. So anyway, um, why don’t we start asking some polls, do some polls? Oh, it happens. Yeah. Right. And then and then that’ll kind of get some more. Let’s go or discussions.
Randall Thompson 20:58
first poll question.
Dr. Jon 21:00
Randall Thompson 21:00
Are you ready? Are you ready? Okay, so you’ve already introduced yourself and told us who you are and where you are. We just want to know, do you currently use extraktLAB equipment?
Dr. Jon 21:11
Yeah, it’s a good question. All right.
Randall Thompson 21:12
And your options are your shopping now. Or you’ve placed your order can’t wait to get it, using it and loving it. Or number four, we are operating but using other equipment. And, and what’s interesting, I’m going to be looking at those results. So you know, go ahead and do that poll, if you can answer that. Oh, you guys are coming in hot. Good. Okay, we’ll come back to this. Okay.
Dr. Jon 21:41
Yeah, I mean, it’s, uh, you know, typically what we find is that people do a lot of shopping online, you know, they’ll take and go to our website, or go to our competitors website, and they’ll go back and forth. And then they’ll call some people, we have lots of tools there for you to to really help you in your shopping process or your research process. So we you know, that’s why we do all this with the, with the calculators, and you know, with these podcasts, and we have the guides, they’re just trying to answer the questions to make it easier for you guys. So
Randall Thompson 22:14
yeah, well, it looks like most of the people are shopping now doing research, okay, that you’re out there. And there’s a lot of people who are operating but using other equipment. So that’s good. That looks like the most about, you know, 7% 5% between five and 10%. keeps moving. So sorry. I’ve already placed the order 8% weight 7%. that some are using it are using our equivalent. Thank you. Great participation rate to get that yes, that’s good. That’s about we have 10% Yeah, yeah. And so about 70% are either shopping now or using other equipment. Yeah. So we’re, we’re at about 80%. So it looks like customer that I know. And it keeps bouncing back and forth. So we’ve got using other equipment is huge, but chopping Now a lot of you are still looking. Wow, can the bricks so sweet? And I’m guessing that, based on conversations I’ve had those who are using other equipment are still shopping as well, because they’re always looking to Yeah, they’re looking they’re a bit bottlenecked Yeah,
Dr. Jon 23:20
exactly. Yeah. So we’ll we’ll talk about some of that stuff as we go along here.
Randall Thompson 23:24
And I’ll keep you posted on the on where the poll is, but yeah, looking good.
Dr. Jon 23:28
So most people are just in their research phase that are listening to this. And it looks like our participation rate is upwards of 80%. So thank you guys for that. Okay, so, and then the rest of you guys are either using our equipment or using other equipment. So that’s, that’s awesome. So yeah. Okay, so, um, second poll question for those researching or using other equipment. Okay, what are your top bottlenecks this is I had wanted to ask our customers or you know, our audience, this really, you know, the first one was processes that that are not worked out. But running. This means, okay, we’re running a process, but we’re kind of just started off with what we thought and it’s not really running the way we’d like it to run, but it’s running. Okay. equipment is too slow, and it’s creating a large inventory build ups. And really, we can’t go any faster because of our equipment. Okay, paperwork is not getting done, and we need to get more paperwork done, you know, for all of our compliancy and that’s a big bottleneck. And then obviously managing employees. Did you put that on there Miller high life? You did? I do not, please do not think that one because you are results at all. Everybody’s gonna, everybody’s gonna put the Miller highlife and it’s gonna skew our results.
Randall Thompson 24:50
So that that was my score.
Dr. Jon 24:53
And then of course, there’s always the proverbial me I’m the biggest bottleneck in the organization. Well, that’s true for anybody. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I definitely am a big bottlneck if you’re running hard. Yeah,
Randall Thompson 25:03
absolutely. I’m, you know, with everybody who’s going they’re always waiting for me. Yeah. So I’m waiting. And we’ve got to get there. Guys. I love that. Oh my gosh, there’s, there’s a lot coming in already it looks like, and we’ll I’ll keep you posted on this poll question as well. But oh my gosh, that looks like the equipment and employees now,
Dr. Jon 25:25
employees are Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that’s up there. Well, you know, that is a big deal. I mean, when you get, you gotta have a good training program for your employees. But we can talk about that for a moment. And MSE
Randall Thompson 25:39
is paperwork of kind of part of managing employees,
Dr. Jon 25:42
I think it is
Randall Thompson 25:44
kind of a combo.
Dr. Jon 25:45
Yeah. And then a lot of the paperwork is like, the stuff that we were talking about before with, you know, when you have a receiving event, right, and all the stuff that you need to record in there to make it a valid receiving event, like how much, you know, and then, you know, what, are they going to put on their notebook or on their phone or something like that? And then do the records that way? And then we’re Yeah, and then they’ll both note get notebook gets lost, or that they’re not using calibrated, you know, equipment? And so you don’t really know what it is? I think, you know, it’s, it’s one thing, especially if you’re working for other people, you have to have all that down, Pat, you know, like, if you’re doing any kind of toll processing, or you’re doing, you know, processing for anybody else, you may be able to tolerate some, you know, issues with, with paperwork, but not, not in the course of real events. So, oh, you’re working for other people,
Randall Thompson 26:36
and it looks like that most of the people are answering this from a process perspective, rather than
Dr. Jon 26:42
let them finish.
Randall Thompson 26:43
I know, but I’m just looking at it.
Dr. Jon 26:45
We’re gonna cut this off five, three, they there, they’re probably multi select. And you know, that’s the problem. Everybody wants to do the Miller high life, but they’re not,
Randall Thompson 26:56
you know, oh, yeah, we should do the poll as a like, okay, rank them.
Dr. Jon 26:59
Can we good?
Randall Thompson 27:00
Can we do it? Hey, April, can we do a ranking poll? I got deer in the headlights? She said,
Dr. Jon 27:06
Randall Thompson 27:08
there’s deer in the headlights there. It’s like not on the fly.
Dr. Jon 27:14
All right. So what are your top bottlenecks? Okay, so what do you got there? All right,
Randall Thompson 27:19
it looks like we’ve got about it looks like 60% are at slow equipment. That’s where they are. And I’m guessing that’s where your biggest pain point is, for slow equipment. But a lot of people are saying that they’ve got about about 20% are saying processes that are not worked out? And I’m guessing that that’s kind of a combo?
Dr. Jon 27:40
Yeah, I think Yeah. If you know, that makes sense. Because a lot of people are, you know, are just in the shopping phase. So their processes are not worked out. But that says if you’re researching or using other equipment, so looking at those who are operators, yeah, I mean, there’s always things that you need to do kind of to solve bottlenecks and solve problems. Right. So,
Randall Thompson 27:59
and the paperwork andn and the other is about, you know, it’s bouncing between 25 and 30. Right, right there. So keep moving. I know that that was excess, but I can keep that. It keeps moving.
Dr. Jon 28:10
Yeah, well, so. Okay. Well, look. One other question than that we’d have for you is for for those researching or using other equipment? What process is the slowest? Okay, so this is this is the process, which process Do you hate the most?
Randall Thompson 28:26
So those of you who answered equipment slow, I mean, you are always having slow equipment, you know, some places where are you experiencing the most pain? Right, slow? Right, right. Okay, so this is your bottleneck? Where is your big bottleneck? testing? grind, initial testing, grinding, extraction, distillation, filtration, decarb, solvent removal? quality? testing?
Dr. Jon 28:52
Yeah. I don’t think all of the above is
Randall Thompson 28:56
thinking it’s the proper processes thinking?
Dr. Jon 29:02
Well, you know, you have distillation. I mean, a lot of times people have that as a as a bottleneck. But I think the one of the main bottlenecks that we hear time and time again, from customers is what like, would you say solvent removal? As because they’re using rotovaps or they’re using some way to get it out in there? It’s just too slow.
Randall Thompson 29:21
It takes a long time.
Dr. Jon 29:23
Yeah. Yeah. And if you have water in your process, try to get water out. Oh, it takes forever. Oh, yeah. Or ever. So solving removals A big a big bottleneck doesn’t
Randall Thompson 29:34
talk to somebody yesterday about that. And, you know, they want to know how can we get this? Can we get that
Dr. Jon 29:39
in the water in?
Randall Thompson 29:41
Yeah, they want to get the water out?
Dr. Jon 29:43
Well, there’s two, two places that you’d get a lot of water. One one place is if you’re doing like a chromatography process, and some some people use like methanol water or ethanol water to do their chromatography. And then they they think that Oh look, this is a solved problem. And It’s no problem at all. And then they get this big bunch of water out. And they’re like, how do we remove it?
Randall Thompson 30:05
And what do we do?
Dr. Jon 30:06
What do we do now?
Randall Thompson 30:07
What do we do now? So that’s the question I’ve been getting. Yeah, yeah, no. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, solvent removal is is huge. And decarb is coming in hot, just like I thought. distillation is ranking higher than I thought it would.
Dr. Jon 30:23
Randall Thompson 30:23
But the reason is because of cleaning.
Dr. Jon 30:27
Yeah, all probably is cleaning. Well, the other thing is a lot of people buy, you know, single stills just with a single still. And so what ends up having to do, what they end up having to do is they’ll they’ll, they’ll do they’ll do their first pass, and then they’ll take that once I do first pass all day. And then the second day, they’ll do a second pass. Yeah. So that’s, that’s probably one of the main reasons why it’s such a big bottleneck.
Randall Thompson 30:49
Well, not to mention, just cleaning the pump, right? Unless you have an oiless pump.
Dr. Jon 30:54
Right, right. Right.
Randall Thompson 30:55
Right. Yeah, that would be better.
Dr. Jon 30:57
Testing testings coming into things. Yeah, I it’s a little lower than I expected. But But you know, testing is, is one of those things where, you know, testing can make a big impact on your overall lead time for sure.
Randall Thompson 31:12
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that the answers that we’re getting, it looks like most of you out there are processors. So I think that they’re looking at the process in the in the inflow, mm, rather than testing, even though you should be testing all along the way, right? If you look at that last podcast that we did on testing that you want to make sure that you’re testing multiple places,
Dr. Jon 31:36
right, right, right,
Randall Thompson 31:37
make sure you can keep moving,
Dr. Jon 31:38
Hey, could you just jot those down real quick. So we can make sure that when we go on to our next that we get and remember what they are?
Randall Thompson 31:45
Sure. I Where Where did my shorthand go?
Dr. Jon 31:52
So yeah, the other thing is, like on the Decarb side, I think, you know, a lot of times people think that Decarb is a bottleneck, but most of the people who use, you know, are actually running a process right now. They’re, they’re using some sort of, you know, they’re, they’re cooking the oil afterward. Okay. And that is kind of a nasty process, you can’t really get any of the terpenes out of it that you’d like, you’re kind of cooking the living daylights out of the oil. So you guys should really try the, you know, activating the biomass, it’s so much better, and you get actual, you know, real terpenes out of it. So just FYI,
Randall Thompson 32:34
that would be very good.
Dr. Jon 32:35
Yeah, yep. When I send out a test, I’d like to talk about a little bit about testing, in the bottlenecks in which processes are the slowest, I mean, testing, I think it’s a slow process on, you know, kind of a little bit, not what these guys are saying, but it is a slow process. I mean, you know, because you send out something to the laboratory, you’re talking about, you know, three, four days, you know, ship time, and then you gotta in the near in the queue there. So, you know, especially when you’re talking about end products, so, you know, no question.
Randall Thompson 33:07
Yeah, yep. And that’s trending upwards, now that you said that.
Dr. Jon 33:12
That, okay, rewrite all the numbers. Okay, we’re gonna close this off, we got to close it off, we gotta close it off. Okay. So 5431 gotta close it off, as the numbers are always changing, so
Randall Thompson 33:28
they are changing. That’s good. Right.
Dr. Jon 33:30
So let’s, let’s go on to our next question that we have. This is, this is so great that we’ll post all of these. They’re answering all of our questions for us. Okay. Okay. Okay, for those who are operating, how do you prioritize and measure process improvement projects? First, first, whack a mole.
Randall Thompson 33:52
I love whack a mole.
Dr. Jon 33:53
whack a mole is a a valid engineering process.
Randall Thompson 33:56
Yeah, but it’s fun to play to. Okay, a little stressful though. The squeaky wheel.
Dr. Jon 34:05
Oh, yeah. Okay, what does what happens? The squeaky wheel gets the grease right? Oh, no, no.
Randall Thompson 34:11
My chair has a squeak if I didn’t lean on it just the right way.
Dr. Jon 34:14
yelling and screaming is also a valid it is absolutely valid. get someone else to run the process. That’s after you have reached your absolute end you’re like, oh, somebody else is gonna do this better. Then you have someone else do it.
Randall Thompson 34:36
Thank you very much people. Right. Bye bye bye.
Dr. Jon 34:40
That you know, and then five. That’s the one that that’s the one that gets done. We have a process to take care of process improvements.
Randall Thompson 34:47
There you go.
Dr. Jon 34:48
o it seems kind of binary like one through four. I kind of like that’s what everybody does. And then nobody does number five. It’s like we have a process for that. Like who who does that?
Randall Thompson 35:01
I know him too. Okay. We both know.
Dr. Jon 35:05
Oh, yeah. Oh, we have a process guy. Yes. We have that guy. We have him. Yeah, we
Randall Thompson 35:09
Yes. And what’s interesting is the answers to these are more personality. Yeah, then factual process stuff.
Dr. Jon 35:20
But it’s how you deal with it. I think whack a mole is a is valid. I mean, that’s
Randall Thompson 35:24
a legitimate valid
Dr. Jon 35:25
organizations deal with whack a mole. So right, they just like oh, something comes up, whack, whack, whack, whack, whack, and then that’s all they do, right? And then something else comes up. But there’s no way to prioritize those.
Randall Thompson 35:35
Dr. Jon 35:35
And also, there’s no way to measure at the very beginning what the priority is for that. And then secondly, which ones you can work on, right? So sometimes if you have a process, that’s what that would give you is, okay, here’s all of our list of issues. We’re actually going to prioritize that based on, you know, based on what is important for our business
Randall Thompson 35:57
and whack both whack a mole and squeaky wheel are all about urgency just reacting to the urgent. Yeah, not the important, right
Dr. Jon 36:06
reacting, reacting, reacting reacting now. Yeah. So sometimes, you know, you can get into it and get really get that that squeaky wheel going. One of the things a lot of people don’t like to you be the squeaky wheel. But so they’ll kind of hide any problems.
Randall Thompson 36:23
Dr. Jon 36:23
That, that. It’s like, Oh, well, I. Yeah. I didn’t know that. So we’re just going to continue. And so they do they invent workarounds to processes that it’s a you go in there, you ask someone what’s going on, and, and it wasn’t, you know, it’s
Randall Thompson 36:36
Dr. Jon 36:37
Everything’s awesome. Everything’s great. Everything’s doing it. And I keep wondering why it takes three days to do something that you had measured only take, you know, half hour. That’s right, like, well, I got this thing I’m working around, and I didn’t really get this piece of inventory. So I really can’t do that. And so I’m doing this in the meantime, and and you see, you know, I didn’t have a proper utensil here. So, you know, I got I’m using this other tool or something like that. That’s the kind of thing so yeah, getting someone else to run the process. That’s another that’s another valid thing. I mean, some people you know, get they get trained on one process, and I think you should do round robin train.
Randall Thompson 37:17
Dr. Jon 37:17
Randall Thompson 37:18
That is so important. And just so you know, I think that whack a mole is winning.
Dr. Jon 37:30
I am not surprised. I mean, I was I haven’t professional whack a mole or for at least at least five years of my career. The squeaky wheel? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we all try not to yell and scream. Oh, that’s that’s kind of a
Randall Thompson 37:45
Well, I think that that denial. It’s kind of like paper free. It’s just not gonna happen. Yeah, Yes, we do. We get in when when you’re just always urgent and everything is frustrating. You’re going to yell and scream and on occasion, but then just read, you know, write the one minute manager,
Dr. Jon 38:05
right. So Okay. 1% of you has a process. Okay, so that’s really yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s pretty good. And I think
Randall Thompson 38:16
I think did now, did they use the process of elimination to come up with that answer?
Dr. Jon 38:23
Well, that nobody wants to be in the four first four buckets.
Randall Thompson 38:27
Yeah, but 95% of you are and thank you for being honest. So and I do see you know, whack a mole is the highest. I don’t see. You know, that’s the squeaky wheel is there, but it’s, it’s almost like fast whack a mole.
Dr. Jon 38:44
Oh, look over here. It looks like the winner is getting someone else to run the process. So we’re gonna cut this off in about five seconds here. So 543
Randall Thompson 38:54
You’re right, getting someone else to run the process may move them around.
Dr. Jon 38:59
It makes sense. I mean, you know, look, Oh, I can’t do that job. Okay, well, we’re gonna put you over to the other and then try to train somebody else. Um, sometimes the, if the problems move, when you move the person, sometimes maybe, you know, you just got to find the right fit for that person. And kind of figure out what their gifts and abilities are. And then you know, maybe maybe they’re good at pushing paper and not actually running something. So, you know, we typically with our, you know, with our equipment, we typically will, you know, recommend that you have someone who has, you know, some mechanical ability, okay. Someone who can, can follow instructions. Yes. You know, sometimes, like, for example, I’ll speak for chemists here. They always want to try to invent some new process or Yeah, they’re probably not the best operators for you’re
Randall Thompson 39:52
Dr. Jon 39:52
yeah, that’s right.
Randall Thompson 39:53
Because they want to break shit.
Dr. Jon 39:56
They want to mess around with all the dials and everything. That’s the same. Yeah, man. facture manufacturing guy wants Okay, here we got SOP we got a process we have, we have all of these things, they’re all set. You don’t have to don’t mess with them. We just want you to run what we’ve already validated. Okay. And then, you know, a chemist is like trying to, you know, go into like an experimental process. And so they really want to go in there and they want to, they want to try to optimize things.
Randall Thompson 40:21
So I have a quick question.
Dr. Jon 40:23
Randall Thompson 40:23
Okay. So we’re in talking about this. This is a question I’ve always been wanting to ask you. Yeah. Okay. So, as an analytical chemist, yeah. Are you a scientist or an artist?
Dr. Jon 40:34
Oh. As an analytical chemist, more of a scientist than than an artist? Yes.
Randall Thompson 40:41
Yeah. He has to say that
Dr. Jon 40:42
you have to say that.
Randall Thompson 40:44
But everything he just said prior to that artist?
Dr. Jon 40:47
Well, the artists Yeah. If you want to look at problems and look at them creative creatively, you know, yes,
Randall Thompson 40:54
I see art as more of a creative process, right. And scientists typically not Right, right. Science is more process driven.
Dr. Jon 41:00
Yeah, I could see that.
Randall Thompson 41:01
But that’s why I asked that question. Well, you would want to, I mean, to offend you?
Dr. Jon 41:05
No, no. Okay, so
Randall Thompson 41:08
I often do
Dr. Jon 41:09
process improvement, though. You want to have a chemist to be a process improvement engineer. Okay, because then he’d say, Okay, well, look, here’s the top processes that we have, here’s the top bottlenecks that we have, instead of whack them, okay, you’re going to take the ones that are top five that are most important to our business, and then you’re going to set the chemists you’re gonna say go go solve that problem. But don’t mess around with the manufacturing process. It’s a part format. So typically, they would do their own studies, they would do their own, get their get their experimental plan together
Randall Thompson 41:40
separate from the flow of actual
Dr. Jon 41:43
Yeah. And then they would also test and measure what they’ve actually done so that they can say, Okay, well, here’s what I recommend to eliminate this process. So,
Randall Thompson 41:50
see, and I think that that’s an okay thing to do as you’re, as you’re testing and running and doing that. And that’s getting someone else to run that process. Yeah. So they are we’re what’s broken?
Dr. Jon 42:01
Yeah, something’s going on. Right. Right. what’s broken? How do we fix it? Right? Or how do you know that it’s broken, putting in the measurements to make sure that you know, are open in the first place? Yeah, good. Good point. Yes. So yeah. And then this is the final wholesale. I know. Crazy. All right. All right. All right. So this is this is, uh, this is where we’re kind of opening up the door in the conversation to, you know, what processes are you are you actually using and what tools are using for your processes? So what tools do you use to reduce paperwork? Okay. And mistake proof your process, or to improve your process one of the two. So what I have here is it’s kind of I have a hodgepodge of questions. And I could actually see that someone would put other none of the above. Yep. on there. It but it’s not an option. So you can just put one or the tools.
Randall Thompson 42:56
Yeah. So what are the tools means you you’re not sure?
Dr. Jon 42:59
Yeah, you’re not really sure. But an MESs would, which is called a manufacturing execution system. That would be one of the tools that you would use to reduce paperwork and mistake proof your process.
Randall Thompson 43:11
I think I saw that movie.
Dr. Jon 43:12
Did you? It was a good?
Randall Thompson 43:14
isn’t PG or you execute on? Right? No, it was not PG. It was closer to our i think i think it’s kind of violent that
Dr. Jon 43:24
I say manufacturing execution systems. Yeah. Yeah.
Randall Thompson 43:28
Robots. Yeah. Well, executions in factoring world
Dr. Jon 43:33
QMS, which is quality management system. Oh, and then the LIMS, which is laboratory information management system?
Randall Thompson 43:40
laboratory Information Management System. Right.
Dr. Jon 43:44
Right. LIMS, LIMS? Yeah, I like that. Yeah.
Randall Thompson 43:46
laboratory information management system.
Dr. Jon 43:48
So sometimes, a lot of times, the reasons you have confusion in your workplace and, you know, problems in your workplaces, you don’t have a really good way to write down, you know, what is okay? So, typically, what you want to do in an operation is you want to go in there and you want to set up data streams that are taking data and like, okay, I’ll tell operator a to record all of this data about the operator B to record all of this data, from the quality perspective, they have all kinds of data that they need to take, you know, like, who did who did the work? Was it calibrated? When did it get calibrated? How much was lost, what the yields are, you know, a manufacturing execution system will do that too. But, you know, typically, manufacturing execution is based on you know, more process oriented,
Randall Thompson 44:40
a lot of people are using a lower based ERP system, yeah, to try to keep that going. And some of them are using accounting systems, rather than actual manufacturing processes.
Dr. Jon 44:52
Right. And I think that that’s, uh, you know, the accountants like to use those systems because it’s really the financial records of the system. But it’s not really helping you from the standpoint of executing?
Randall Thompson 45:04
Dr. Jon 45:04
Or, like you wouldn’t use, for example, em in eirp system to manage all your quality data.
Randall Thompson 45:11
Dr. Jon 45:12
You know that that probably wouldn’t be just work you wouldn’t. But the accountants they typically want to know about yields.
Randall Thompson 45:18
Oh, oh, yeah.
Dr. Jon 45:19
So that’s like cost accounting, right? So they want to know about yields. And sometimes you can work with your cost accountant and, or with your, or with your manufacturing engineer to really get an idea of, you know, where are all my yields? Where am I losing cannabinoids? What is my waste? And how am I managing my waist? You know, those are the types of things that you get from your cost accountant. And also from your MES and QMS. systems, which so what also take a look at that. Yeah, so
Randall Thompson 45:49
so i think i think
Dr. Jon 45:50
people are just confused by this question. I think the because number one is winning, and what are the tools?
Randall Thompson 45:56
What are the two?
Dr. Jon 45:57
What are the tools?
Randall Thompson 45:59
Because there, I think that you know, a lot of a lot of you out there are not using an MES currently, or in some sort or you you’re using something that is not meant to be
Dr. Jon 46:12
maybe yellow legal pads,
Randall Thompson 46:15
Dr. Jon 46:15
clipboards, and or, you know, an
Randall Thompson 46:17
Excel spreadsheet and exactly,
Dr. Jon 46:19
maybe an Excel spreadsheet. And that’s when
Randall Thompson 46:21
you go all the way back to human error being your biggest bottleneck.
Dr. Jon 46:24
Yeah, pretty much,
Randall Thompson 46:25
because now you’re gonna have document errors and things like that. Yeah. So an MES would be the best tool to use, I think, for this.
Dr. Jon 46:34
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in terms of paperwork and mistake proofing your process, for sure. Yeah. I mean, what an MES is, is it basically it steps the operator through the process, okay. So it’ll start off saying, okay, hey, do this first. Okay, in other words, scan my badge in or, hey, here, I’m actually doing this work. Number two, you know, scan your equipment in, for example, with a barcode reader, in all of what as soon as you scan that in, it knows, okay, now I’m, I’m in this process, I’m using this process, and this is the equipment that I use in this process. And that has all been validated as being you know, usable for this process. Or the third step would be okay, I’m going to scan in the materials that I’m going to convert, okay, and, and that would be like a barcode that would come in on your piece of, on your stuff, you’d scan that in, say, oh, here’s the lot that I’m going to now for example, filter, or here’s the lot that I’m going to remove. And then if I’m adding ingredients to this, if suppose I’m making a product, you know, and I’m going to add like MCT oil or something, you need to scan in those input ingredients as well, so that you have all the lot numbers and the expiration dates and all that stuff. So those are the types of things that you can see how the quality management system and that quality data, and then the manufacturing execution me actually doing those steps are is critical
Randall Thompson 47:58
Dr. Jon 47:59
to have those two actually working together and
Randall Thompson 48:02
need them together.
Dr. Jon 48:03
Yeah, you kind of do really them together. Yeah. And you can also see that if that if that manufacturing execution system is bringing the operator through those steps, they’re not then cutting corners, because there’s no way for them to actually report anything what they did, without actually bringing it through those steps. So and it also has Yeah, so like training and things like that, it’s really great for that. So MES and QMS, they kind of go together with the LIMS is I just to just to kind of give you an idea, that’s a laboratory information management system. And usually they run laboratories. And what that means is, you’ll get a barcode on a sample in, you’ll have data associated with that, who the customer is, what the what the sample and what the sampling method was, you know, when the sample was taken, what method was used for the sampling, all that stuff is recorded in that barcode, right? And then you and then you, basically you store it, you bring it to your storage, you check it into your storage, then you check it out of your store. So it’s managing where it is and the location. And then when you’re actually measuring. In your laboratory, you actually measure the sample you’ll you’ll say, Okay, I use this sample method with it and record, you know, the lats and all that stuff of these, the, you know, the column and the sample prep method and all that stuff. And then it’s sometimes some of the LIMS systems actually will record all the data, like the bits of data, you know that that? Yeah, so some of them are really super high end. But but for the manufacturer, what they need to know is okay, where’s my sample? How is how does it relate back to the lot that I just gave you? And what and then does it pass or fail? Yeah, that that’s what they’re really
Randall Thompson 49:47
that’s really what they need.
Dr. Jon 49:48
Yeah. So what a LIMS system will do is it’ll help you manage your quality and it also helps you manage, you know, your manufacturing execution. So when you’re in the system. So those are really what those systems are. And Okay, so, um, you know, we should probably do an entire, you know, kind of, kind of podcast on on this system on this on the integration of these three systems because a lot of people are wondering about them, they can see how everything gets put together. So I’m going to scroll back here to our, our sample, basically our map here, you can see if you have a software that will allow you to integrate all of the analysis here. So you know, where each of these potency testing is going to the laboratory comes back. And and you know that it comes from that lot in that area. With that particular that’s laboratory information jury managing. And then your quality is also managing, you know, who did, who’s using it, what equipment, what the calibration records are, you know, pretty much measuring all of that. And then your manufacturing execution system is basically right inside one of these processes. Were step one, step two, step three, step four, Step five, and then your mistake proofing in there.
Randall Thompson 51:07
I think that that integration is critical. I love the idea of doing that as a full podcast.
Dr. Jon 51:12
Yeah, so that’s what the IGW lab is. So we, we should probably do that. But that’s essentially we’re kind of queuing it up for that. These questions here. And, you know, to get through all these questions, almost takes an entire hour. But we’re going to use the data here that we gather from you guys to kind of really take in the next show here really talk about, you know, the IGW lab, what it is, why it’s important, where you would use it in each of the pieces of where you would use it, of course, here we have it, we use it here, we use it here, we use it here, all that stuff. But we can also show, you know, like, you know, scanning in event, scanning out events, what the data is, what the reports are, and things like that.
Randall Thompson 51:52
And that’s doing a full integration of an MES, QMS and a LIMS system.
Dr. Jon 51:57
Yeah, that’s what it is. Okay. In Yeah. So and it’s specifically designed for hemp, for marijuana processing, even though it could be used outside of hemp. Some of the items in there, you’d have to really, you know, kind of alter it if you didn’t want it to be hemp.
Randall Thompson 52:15
Well, you built that just specifically for the cannabis industry. Yeah, we did. So yeah. And that’s, I think that’s, I think that would be exciting to go through. And it doesn’t have to be integrated with extaktLAB gear, you know, you can use that wherever, yeah,
Dr. Jon 52:28
you can use it, whatever. It’s just basically, it’s a site that, you know, it’s all it’s all in the cloud, okay, you have your own instance, which all with all your own security and everything. And then you get a login to it. And each station is set up as a separate workstation. So it’s a workstation driven piece. It’s got hardware and software. Let me scroll down here to there’s the there’s the hardware. So this is, yeah, it is it’s pretty nice. So sometimes what’s nice is to have infrastructure in your facility, specifically dedicated to taking data. Well, you know what I mean? So hey, if you want to take data, if you’re going to measure anything, if you’re going to record anything, if you’re going to make any kind of movement, or transfer material or recording of information, you you go to this spot, that’s very powerful, because essentially, it’s all there, all your all your stuff is there. Sometimes you have in these drawers here, you’d put sampling, you know, vessels or whatever, you’d put your gloves, you you’d have, you know, in the software itself, you’d have your SOPs that would be in there. So when someone said, Okay, take a sample, the chart SLP would be right there. So you wouldn’t have to, you know, you wouldn’t have to,
Randall Thompson 53:44
and I’m guessing that scale isn’t the two tons?
Dr. Jon 53:46
No, no. I think that’s a, that’s a six kilos scale. So that would be something this would be the piece of equipment that you might have, for example, in a distillation area where you’d have small amounts going in and out, you know, not more than you know, 10 kilos at a time, you’d be measuring it and then yeah, so that that’s, that’s what that looks like.
Randall Thompson 54:09
Great. I love this. And it so it looks like you’ve got the workstation, keyboard, mouse barcode reader scanner, and the scale with a readout. And it’s all integrated.
Dr. Jon 54:21
It’s all integrated, right? And so you would have, scroll back up here, see, you’d have one of those stations at the receiving, you’d have one in grinding, you’d have one in vacuum decarb and in the extractor in the dewaxing isolation that you’d also have it in the end product. So as you made your own products, it would be you know, okay, I’m measuring, making up a formulation would all be traceable back to the original raw material. Okay, and
Randall Thompson 54:49
I’m seeing a couple of questions here. Some some of the folks on are smaller in scale.
Dr. Jon 54:55
Randall Thompson 54:55
So if they have a small scale operation, what would be the minimum A number of works.
Dr. Jon 55:01
Only three? I mean, yeah, cuz you’d want to have some one large because you’d have to have one large one for you know you’re receiving. And then you want to have maybe yes, six to 10 kilogram scale in the middle, and then you’d want to have one that’s, that’s towards the end so that you can, you could really relieve all of the inventory from it. So I think that you’d want to have three at a minimum, I think you could get away with one just for on like a trial basis. But if you really difficult because you’d always be going to that one spot. Yeah, that would be tough. That would be like a one room laboratory. Yeah, so I have seen those for like, really small operations. And what’s nice about it is that you can go into each of the different processes and record, okay, so if you had a, you know, maybe five 600 square foot lab, you probably would only have room for one, okay? So but if you’re if you have, if you have an inventory area, if you have any quarantine involved, if you have any, you know, like on site laboratory, this site, this type of thing is what you need to really take all your material and information flow, and bring it all into one, one automated system. So manufacturing execution, all your quality data, and then also all your laboratory information is really super powerful.
Randall Thompson 56:18
Yeah, this is this is excellent. Yeah. And one of the things that I’ve seen most people and with the three is that if there’s one at receiving, which also then doubles with grinding, and decarb Oh, yeah, you can do it that way. Because I’ve seen that because it’s a large nation. Yeah, yeah. And then and then they’ll go into even small operations, even they’ve, that’s the way I’ve seen them broken out where grinding and decarb are kind of in one area. And then right, you’ve got the extraction and de waxing, filtering, right stuff. And another,
Dr. Jon 56:52
some people use it, like, um, you know, the equipment module in there is pretty nice. So you can, you can use it to, you know, record events. So, so for example, um, if you, if you have a, like a fire extinguisher that you need to make sure always has the right stamp expiration date, you can just barcode that in, and you can run an equipment report, and it’ll tell you everything that’s expired, or is going to expire in the next month or two, you know, what I mean? So it’ll, it’ll give
Randall Thompson 57:21
you that reminder, for when Time to refill, or
Dr. Jon 57:25
Yeah, exactly. So it’s getting the side, it’s great for that. Also, um, what is nice is that, you know, if you’re talking about manufacturing, execution, and all your SOPs, you know, people are typically standard operating, procedure driven, okay, so they have all of that data and everything that they need to take with step by step. And that’s all in your slps. Right here, you have, each one of these has an SOP, including, you know, for example, sampling, and then potency testing as an SOP. All of those are typically in the IGW lab system already. They’re all there, they’re built in, and you can change them. And then it’ll also tell you, it’ll, it’ll track what was changed. So it’s not enough to say, Okay, here’s the processes that I’m using right now. Or you have to be able to show what processes you were you you were using, when you actually made the material. And if they’re changing, which they kind of, you know, they change a lot, you need to have an event manager. So you can always go back and look at your old vessel. And I think
Randall Thompson 58:25
that that’s good. And circling all the way back. I do like the idea of doing a whole podcast on just the this package. Going all the way back. I love the fact that you can talk people through using the system. Here’s what you do next. Here’s what’s next. Right? And I think it’s set up so you can’t move on until you do that.
Dr. Jon 58:46
Yeah, that’s that’s a part of the mistake proofing aspect of it. So and then making sure that you have the right quality. Yeah, I mean, yeah, if you take them step by step through, that helps, that helps. One thing I would also mention is that it has all the training events. So like, for example, if you were an IGW user, or an admin or whatever, the user would have all types of training documents attached to you. And they would all be in there. So hey, I’m been trained on this particular SOP. I’ve been trained to use this particular piece of equipment. And I am trained on GMP, which is the entire process. Here’s all my, here’s all my RGM. Here’s my, here’s my entire stack of certifications that I have. And you know, a lot of times like if you have inspectors come in or anything like that, they’re always going to be looking for those training records. That’s the first place they go, Oh, you don’t have the training here. You don’t have the training here. Yeah, you’re gonna get written up for that. There’s a certain number,
Randall Thompson 59:41
but it’s all there. And then you can use those to say, all right, what are you? Where’s your deficit? And where can we put you on the round Robin?
Dr. Jon 59:48
Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah, do a training report and, and things So
Randall Thompson 59:52
I think that that I think that’s good. So that brings us all the way back to what are the, you know, what are these bottlenecks that you’re Experiencing and how do you solve those? Right? And? And how do you identify them?
Dr. Jon 1:00:05
Right, right, right.
Randall Thompson 1:00:06
And these are some good tools and good ways to find that.
Dr. Jon 1:00:09
Yeah, um, like, for example, there’s a report a problem button in the, in the IGW, we’d rather have people reporting problems as they come along. And whenever they come along, rather than, you know, rather than ignoring them, right, because that’s the worst thing that can happen. What what we’d actually like to have them do is push a big red button with a big alarm with a big thing saying, you know, stop the process. Okay, then everybody comes around, says, okay, what’s the problem? You know, that’s what we’d like to see. Because then you’re really nailing down the problems within the process. So
Randall Thompson 1:00:46
So has anyone said, I just need a hug. A hug, but need a hug. But that’s, then you want to move that person? Oh, different space where they can have interaction. Okay. I love this. This is this has been very helpful, because it’s helped you has this helped you, by the way and comment, please comment on how this is helping you identify where your bottlenecks are maybe you thought you had bottleneck here, but maybe it’s somewhere else, or maybe one bottleneck or problem is, is pushing into and creating issues elsewhere.
Dr. Jon 1:01:22
Right? What was our number one bottleneck on the equipment side? What was that you had written that down there?
Randall Thompson 1:01:29
The the number one was the solvent removal? Okay. Yeah, that was number one. But I do you know, it kept coming up to the testing because that, you know, some people are doing it in house and not they just see it,
Dr. Jon 1:01:42
because I kept on
Randall Thompson 1:01:45
and kept going. The second one, actually jumped up on the distillation. Okay. And, you know, because of, you know, there’s some of you out there using single single stage. Yeah,
Dr. Jon 1:01:54
yeah. So you want to look at the clearSTILL, I definitely, because it’s a dual stage all in one package. It’s pretty high throughput, it’s really I have throughput. And and, you know, you can set up the parameters with solvent removal station to just directly feed your your distillate station. So you can kind of run it as an autonomous
Randall Thompson 1:02:13
By the way, we have previous podcast. So go there, we do one, one complete one on solvent removal.
Dr. Jon 1:02:19
Yeah, we do.
Randall Thompson 1:02:20
And we talked a bit about the fracTRON. Yeah, we did, it’ll replace like up to 12 rotovaps. Yeah, I mean, it’s fast. Yeah. And it’s fast. It’s pretty cool. That’ll eliminate that roadblock.
Dr. Jon 1:02:30
And what’s nice about that, also, just on the other side of it is you should be able to tune that particular piece of equipment. So that so that it will decarb in the final in the final, you know, there’s three stages to it. So you can slow it way down and do the decarb in that final stage. So Oh, wow.
Randall Thompson 1:02:49
Yeah. Okay, so you can do it there as well.
Dr. Jon 1:02:52
Randall Thompson 1:02:52
All right. That’s good. And then on the distillate, we also did a whole session on distillation.
Dr. Jon 1:02:58
Yeah, we did that, that’s, uh, that’s interesting, you know, what the distillation, when we started to look at making our own distillate equipment, we kind of did it out of necessity, because we, we’ve, we actually bought a bunch of third party, what we call third party equipment, and, you know, we used it, and we actually still use some of it. Um, and it just, you know, it did, it didn’t have the throughput that we needed. And it was, there was some breaking down a lot of breaking down, we wanted to solve those problems, okay, for our customers. And so, and then we also want to solve the throughput issue, because, you know, I’d have to buy two or three units in order to equal one of our units. And so we kind of sized it so that it was kind of a two to one or three to one throughput, so that people people need it anyway. Yeah. And people are trying to like, Okay, well, I just only need one, well, you kind of need more than that. Because you’re going to be doing it, you’re going to be doing pass one pass to pass three. It’s just very, very time consuming. So if you don’t care at all about your time, then it’s probably not okay. That’s
Randall Thompson 1:04:00
okay. Because you got to run it through two or three times again, right. And that’s just you got to get that done.
Dr. Jon 1:04:05
It’s not really production model. So yeah, but yeah,
Randall Thompson 1:04:08
we did talk about that. So and, and one of the things that I found even, you know, with our clear still in comparison on that, yeah, is that not only do you get higher throughput, but you get greater yield. That’s why I’m just
Dr. Jon 1:04:21
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that we get greater yield. In other words, you lose a lot less CBD. Yeah, that’s just kind of curtain kind of crazy. It is really, I really like that. It’s kind of unexpected. Yeah. And I wish I really, I wish I understood it.
Randall Thompson 1:04:37
I tell people that I’m like, you know, it gets this higher. yield we just don’t have any idea why.
Dr. Jon 1:04:47
It had something to do with our vacuum system. And I don’t know I i every time I asked them why they’re like, Why do you care? You know, we’re doing it so
Randall Thompson 1:04:56
Exactly. Whatever I mean, but I’m we’re talking I mean, I’ve done I’ve worked With three customers in a row, and we’re giving between 20 and 30%, higher yield, yeah, I mean, that’s a big number,
Dr. Jon 1:05:07
it’s a big number, because by the time it gets to your distillate, you’re already have have all of that cumulative cost of goods that you’re accumulating, it’s worth a lot more. To start off. That’s true. So you want to make sure that you’re gathering as many cannabinoid molecules as possible.
Randall Thompson 1:05:26
It’s crazy. So anyway, but go and look at that. So we’ve got in our, you know, Learning Library, you know, we’ve got it. We’ve talked about testing, we’ve talked about distillation, we’ve talked about solvent removal. We’ve talked about all of this, this is good. And now we’re going to do the MES QMS LIMS. systems. So we’re going to do we’re going to talk about all of that. And we didn’t talk about the fact that you need you need those to be GMP certified, right?
Dr. Jon 1:05:57
Well, no, you can do it all with paper,
Randall Thompson 1:06:00
Dr. Jon 1:06:00
yes, you still can, you can do it all with paper. It’s just, it’s just a pain. That’s where that’s where the paperwork aspect comes in.
Randall Thompson 1:06:08
Dr. Jon 1:06:09
So if you have a system that’s managing all your training records, managing your, you know, all your calibration records, managing all of your barcodes and how they’re flowing through the material, material flow through your systems. And, you know, if you have all that stuff, it’s really, really kind of helps you, you know, yeah. It helps you comply with the requirements of GMP. Because it’s all it’s all in there. Yeah. So,
Randall Thompson 1:06:37
so why reinvent the wheel?
Dr. Jon 1:06:39
Yeah, why reinvent the wheel? Essentially, GMP is a is a is a QMS. It’s a quality management system. Okay. And, yeah, in, you know, everything that we were just talking about here with, you know, how you would measure and control your processes is part of the quality side of it.
Randall Thompson 1:06:54
Okay. And along the way, you get the bonus of process validation, all the way through with these things.
Dr. Jon 1:07:00
Yeah, process validation is actually a different it’s a separate SLP
Randall Thompson 1:07:05
Dr. Jon 1:07:06
yeah. That’s kind of cool. So like, for example, if I have a method, okay, like our extraction method, and I want to validate that I would look at my validation SLP for that, or that method, and I would follow it to show that it’s reproducible, that’s reliable, that it’s robust. Okay, and then I would say, Okay, now I have a validated production method, the same thing goes for, or like testing methods or any, so it’s, it’s okay, most people don’t validate, because it most people don’t validate, because it takes a lot of work to do that
Randall Thompson 1:07:42
it does. But if you’ve got that pole system built into Rhino, like I GW admin and saying, do this, do this, do this, do this, right. Isn’t that a continuous process validation?
Dr. Jon 1:07:52
Yeah, it kind of is. And you could probably write an SOP that would allow you to do that.
Randall Thompson 1:07:58
So advanced the adenoids.
Dr. Jon 1:08:02
Adenoids, man, kidneys.
Randall Thompson 1:08:06
I love this. Okay. What else do you want to talk about today? Because we’re getting short on time.
Dr. Jon 1:08:11
Well, I think that’s, that’s about it. I think we went over the main pre processing things. Thank you so much for all of your answers. That was very helpful. And we’ll use those in crafting, crafting a future episode basically
Randall Thompson 1:08:26
do we want to do, do we want to jump into that next week? Yeah, I think so. I think we’ll do this next week. So we’re going to take all of your results. And we’ll be able to validate those. And make sure that you know exactly what’s there on the tools that are the polls that we’ve done. So make sure that you get this and there will be a replay here. So go ahead and do that. And keep the questions coming in. Because we’ll be able to answer them next week as well.
Dr. Jon 1:08:53
Randall Thompson 1:08:54
When we’re there. So thank you for being here. Thank you for interacting with our whole team. We’ve got you guys have asked for more interaction from our bench to you know, ask your questions as you’re coming up. So that’s why we didn’t spend time here. No, we got
Dr. Jon 1:09:09
we got a bunch of people there, you know, responding to people. So
Randall Thompson 1:09:12
that’s good. And that’s awesome. Some of them are answering as you
Dr. Jon 1:09:16
Yeah. Well, that’s, that has to do with a login. So I’m not actually answering a lot of those. But yeah, our sales guys are going you’re not alone. Our technical people are going in there answering as many so
Randall Thompson 1:09:28
I love it. Thank you for being here. Continue to ask questions, invite your friends, there will be a replay. So do that and join us next week. And again, this week, we talked about you know, we jumped into a lot of different questions on bottlenecks and trying to figure them out what Where are they? We talked about the LIMS system, the LIMS, the laboratory Information Management System. Yes. The quality management system, the manufacturing execution system, we talked a little bit About introduced, you know, the ERP and the accounting methodologies and where those fit and the fact that you know, you can integrate those. Go to our resources live tour. CBD jam sessions are talked to are bot on our website.
Dr. Jon 1:10:14
Randall Thompson 1:10:14
Oh my God.
Dr. Jon 1:10:15
He’s hungry for conversations.
Randall Thompson 1:10:16
And he’s pretty cool. Hi, how are you? He’s pretty cool. And a big brother ish. It’s kind of fun. He’s so but yeah, he stumped the bot is the kind of thing so we even he likes tough questions. Anyway, invite your friends come next week, calculator library. Go to YouTube, like us on all of our social media on your favorite social media. And so next week, we’re going to be talking about what are we titling that next? I don’t know. I have no idea. Yeah, so we should talk about that. But it’s this. It’s the it’s part two. Yeah. bottlenecks solved part. Do. Very good. We’ll come up with a catchier name than that. Thank you for being here. Again. Congratulations again to D. Parker, who won that hoodie. I taking calculator quiz. So go ahead and do you know, there’s a lot of different ways Jared gets real creative on how to then we have winners.
Dr. Jon 1:11:11
Oh, yeah. I love it.
Randall Thompson 1:11:16
And I apologize because I took us down a few rabbit holes and try trails today we went Baba Baba. Oh,
Dr. Jon 1:11:21
no, it was it was good. It was actually it was really good. I learned a lot. This was this was really good. I hope you liked it. Yeah, Thank you so much for joining us. And also, you know, you guys, the comments that we get are really awesome. And we just like we we’d love them. We crave your comments. We crave your questions. Any no question is, is too small.
Randall Thompson 1:11:44
Yep. And those of you who watch after the fact that whenever you watch please, you know, put post your comments and questions because we love them. And we we do that. And we revisit them later on. They’re so good. They are good. You guys are awesome. Yeah. So thank you. All right,
Dr. Jon 1:12:00
we’re out. Thank you. See you later See.
CBD Jam Session 1:12:07
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