Full vs. Broad Spectrum and Isolate
Product formulations are a critical part of the CBD extraction process, but sometimes it can get complicated. What is full spectrum distillate? How is it any different from broad spectrum distillate? And what about CBD isolate? All of these formulations have their place in the CBD industry and it is important to know what product is the best for each individual in order to create a profitable extraction business. Depending on the individual user, full spectrum, broad spectrum or CBD isolate can have different effects, and may affect that user’s preference when choosing a product. Where full spectrum may be considered the best option for someone looking to take advantage of The entourage effect with terpenes and a full range of cannabinoids working together to create compounded effects, CBD isolate may be the best choice for someone looking for the lone benefits of just cannabidiol. Lying somewhere in the middle lies broad spectrum which may contain specific cannabinoids and terpenes without THC in any quantity. All of these formulations are beneficial to some, and detrimental to others making it important to distinguish each in your own production. In this episode of extrakTALKS, Dr. Jon and Randall Thompson go into full detail about these topics including how to formulate, the legality, and the personal risks and benefits of each. Listen up and learn how to implement these formulations to your own extraction business and see just how vital full, broad and isolate formulations are in the CBD market.
LISTEN to this episode:
[05:07] – Primer Full Spectrum, Broad Spectrum , Isolate
[06:50] – Brands of United Science
[07:28] – Bulk Products from Hemp
[10:05] – Progression of products
[11:13] – Close up of Hemp Flower
[12:26] – Biomass Composition
[13:07] – Hemp and Marijuana Processing
[13:45] – Crude Oil
[14:58] – Soupy Collection of Crude Oil
[16:02] – Crude Composition
[17:54] – Distillate
[18:59] – Distillate Composition
[20:04] – Isolate
[20:49] – Isolate Composition
[22:14] – Broad Spectrum
[22:22] – Broad Spectrum Composition
[23:19] – Full Spectrum Vs Broad Spectrum, Vs Engineered Spectrum
[26:54] – In Full Spectrum THC Non-Spec What is the Average Percentage?
[27:44] – Example of an Engineered Spectrum?
[32:15] – Pros and Cons for Bulk Products
[35:14] – Taste Testing Different Products
[42:03] – Growing Population of CBD Users
[47:18] – Formulations
[47:40] – What is the Entourage Effect?
[48:47] – Pharmacodynamics
[57:36] – Terpenes and Cannabinoids That Work Synergistically
[58:33] – Main Terpenes Found
[01:00:20] – Dr. Jon’s Entourage Effect Comparison
[01:06:31] – Final Words
Welcome to extrakTalks with Dr. Jon podcast. Dr. Jon is CEO and president of extraktLAB and United Science, an industry leader in hemp, cannabis and the extraction industry. Listen closely as Dr. Jon talks about his experiences, CBD extraction methodology and the ins and outs of owning your own business. Dr. Jon teaches you healthy business practices, how to increase your profits and steps to take your CBD company to a whole new level. Let’s dive in.
Randall Thompson 01:57
Was there technical difficulties That was Oh, are we on? Are we live? Are we good?
Dr. Jon 02:03
Randall Thompson 02:04
Oh, hot mic hot mic. You know, we’ve done hot mics before, without realizing they were hot mics, so I don’t think we offended anybody other than each other.
Dr. Jon 02:15
No, we didn’t offend anybody. We’d never do that.
Randall Thompson 02:18
While each other regularly don’t we?
Dr. Jon 02:22
Randall Thompson 02:28
Dr. Jon 02:29
Randall Thompson 02:29
It’s all family. Right? It’s all good. It’s all good. Hey, thanks for being here, by the way, and we got just so you know, April said to me earlier,
Dr. Jon 02:40
Randall Thompson 02:40
Dr. Jon 02:42
Randall Thompson 02:42
She did say that.
Dr. Jon 02:43
Randall Thompson 02:44
Holy cow. Full Spectrum broad spectrum distillate and isolate.
Dr. Jon 02:50
Alright, that’s we’re going to talk about today?
Randall Thompson 02:52
fsd. BSD isolate.
Dr. Jon 02:55
Randall Thompson 02:56
that’s gonna be fun. Yeah, it’s gonna be fun show.
Dr. Jon 02:58
Randall Thompson 02:58
there’s a lot of people who want this questions on this thank you for being here. If you get locked up for whatever reason, hit the red button on the top to rejoin it doesn’t take kick you out doesn’t do anything. That’s what I love about this. Ask questions, bring them, bring them bring them. There will be a replay. There’s lots of resources, no holds barred. Tell us who you are. Introduce yourself. Tell us what you do where you are in the process farmer, processor, chemist, engineer, just user, whatever, wherever you are invester
Dr. Jon 03:30
Randall Thompson 03:32
end user. Isn’t everybody an end user?
Dr. Jon 03:35
Randall Thompson 03:36
Dr. Jon 03:37
Yeah, I guess so. Um,
Randall Thompson 03:38
yes. Oh, hey, by the way, Lewis Sodele from Commerce, California.
Dr. Jon 03:49
Randall Thompson 03:49
Is there a such a thing as commerce, California? Yeah, there’s commerce. Oh, Jared said he looked it up. There’s commerce, California. He won a whole swag Bag including a hat and a shirt.
Dr. Jon 04:01
Randall Thompson 04:02
And you know how he got it?
Dr. Jon 04:04
Randall Thompson 04:05
No He chatted with our chat. I’ll
Dr. Jon 04:07
Randall Thompson 04:08
with our bot.
Dr. Jon 04:09
Randall Thompson 04:09
our bot picked him.
Dr. Jon 04:10
Randall Thompson 04:11
Whoa. Okay, so talk to the bot the bot is really cool. I and he is on fire. He talks to me like all night. Hey, somebody wants to talk to you from Turkey. Somebody wants to talk to you from Switzerland. Hey, somebody wants to talk to you from Asia.
Dr. Jon 04:27
It is it dings things all the time
Randall Thompson 04:30
as a ding all the time. So thank you for your questions. This is what we run in engage with not only the bot at the bottom of our extraktLAB.com site with the K, by the way. on the site at the bottom, we still have to name him.
Dr. Jon 04:48
Oh, yeah. Um, well, I don’t know. Did he change the icon? I think we change the icon on that.
Randall Thompson 04:54
Dr. Jon 04:54
Yeah, we did. So.
Randall Thompson 04:55
Dr. Jon 04:56
yeah. I think if you look at it, we no longer have a little bot.
Randall Thompson 05:00
Doesn’t have like a see I engage via real technology the way the way you guys engage as well, so I didn’t see that there it doesn’t give me the new little thing no all right anyway thank you for being here today a lots of things to bring the questions don’t forget to check out our the live tour. Our CBD jam sessions they are filling up, we’re we’re having to add resources for that actually, there’s a lot coming. So we’re getting to you as quickly as we can with those CBD jam sessions. You can just go online and you know they’re 15-20 minutes, some go extensive or we add additional ones so you know we’re here to help you succeed in advanced extraction guide distillation Guide, which is another thing calculator libraries, the calculators getting, you guys burning it up.
Dr. Jon 05:51
Randall Thompson 05:52
calculators are all over the map. Yeah, they’re there. They’re huge and a lot more mini courses on way so really good. And a little shout out to James who who came here today. He’s he’s a little sleep deprived had a baby. So it’s, but it’s exciting. Yeah it’s a warm glow sleep deprivation.
Dr. Jon 06:15
Randall Thompson 06:17
James Whoo. Okay, so that’s cool. All right, let’s get in because I know you have like a 72 slide presentation.
Dr. Jon 06:23
It’s at least it only takes five minutes.
Randall Thompson 06:27
Where’s my sound effects?
Dr. Jon 06:30
Okay, no sound effects for you
Randall Thompson 06:34
right? Okay, good. So, I’m gonna, I’m gonna Let’s go. Alright, let’s do it really cool stuff. Let’s do it. So what I want, I know you’re gonna jump into the presentation, right? Can you do just a little primer of full, broad, isolate
Dr. Jon 06:48
Sure. Okay, so here we got the a lot of people use CBD in different forms to create their formulations. Okay. These include Crude. They include include distillates typically they include isolettes and broad spectrum, okay. And then there’s also a category that’s kind of up and coming, which we’ve been doing for a long time. And that’s the engineer, you know, engineer, completely engineered where you take, you know, the, you break up all the components and then put them back.
Randall Thompson 07:23
So it will be an engineered formulation.
Dr. Jon 07:25
Engineered formulation. Yeah.
Randall Thompson 07:27
Dr. Jon 07:28
Some people use winterized oils, for example, also for tinctures and things like that. So, you know, we’re going to just talk about, you know, some of the benefits of each of those differences and things like that. So,
Randall Thompson 07:41
I sense that there’s tasting coming.
Dr. Jon 07:43
Yeah, we’re gonna make you taste various kinds. And then we’re also going to talk about the entourage effect in my big jar of terpenes. I don’t know where that was. It was in the refrigerator.
Randall Thompson 07:56
I had nothing to do with it. I I promise nothing. Wasn’t me.
Dr. Jon 08:00
All right. All right, so we’ll get it. I think it was for stuff so, but we’re gonna demonstrate the entourage effect using beer.
Randall Thompson 08:09
Dr. Jon 08:09
so it should be pretty good.
Randall Thompson 08:11
And we have a disco ball.
Dr. Jon 08:13
That’s out out back. Yeah, we got that up and we
Randall Thompson 08:15
should have that that would be that would be another thing. Disco. entourage. Okay, let’s right.
Dr. Jon 08:22
Okay, so we’re gonna we’re gonna go ahead and tune this thing up here to have it up. There it is. We’re going to share the slides here.
Randall Thompson 08:30
Here it comes. Here we go.
Dr. Jon 08:35
You’re your IQ today. I feel a little depressed today.
Randall Thompson 08:39
Dr. Jon 08:39
Yeah, yeah, just maybe just I haven’t had enough coffee.
Randall Thompson 08:42
Oh, I doubt that. I doubt that.
Dr. Jon 08:46
All right, here we go. Let’s try it. Let’s try this out. All right,
Randall Thompson 08:49
Hey this is a cool slide.
Dr. Jon 08:51
Oh, yeah, that’s kind of all of our brands there along with our United science. So those are the here all the brands that are under united science. We got pure 99 We got clearSTILL, fracTRON, carbonX, extraktLAB, which is our, our series of, you know, most most well known for a series of extractors Of course, and then there’s me, here’s the bulk products that you can get from hemp. So a lot of people ask us, for example, you know what, what can I get from hemp in terms of the products, okay, you can, you can sell flower, okay, and you can grind up the flower also and sell it as a blend. A lot of times people will get flower if you’re doing CBD flower. A lot of times they will have, you know, an elevated concentration of THC. So people like to blend it to get the amount down to less than point three.
Randall Thompson 09:42
When We were in the r&d Lab,
Dr. Jon 09:44
Randall Thompson 09:44
We use a little bit of that we made our own brew.
Dr. Jon 09:46
We did yeah, that was good.
Randall Thompson 09:48
Dr. Jon 09:49
That was good. And then you drank it. We made that with everclear. So we made a Rick Simpson oil. We really drank the whole thing.
Randall Thompson 09:56
Quite an afternoon.
Dr. Jon 09:58
Okay, so what do we got here, guys? All right. Looks like it’s coming off here.
Randall Thompson 10:02
Oh, I didn’t do it. Not me Okay.
Dr. Jon 10:09
Randall Thompson 10:10
Welcome back, James. That’s that sleep deprivation. There it is. There we go. Oh, I was almost there. It was just a tease.
Dr. Jon 10:21
We’re so glad James that you’re here. Otherwise it’d be a total disaster is okay. So here it is. And then we got ground material, okay. And the ground material is blended flower typically. And the reason you would do that is to get it so it’s less than point 3%. So, a lot of people do that. Sometimes also, they add in, you know, like terpenes for infusion, and things along those lines. So, that’s how that is. And then you have raffinate some people sell raffinate you know, for various fiber purposes. A lot of times, you know, it’s not the raffinate that you would get from say a an extraction. is actually quite quite small in terms of the length of the fiber. So, a lot of people don’t use raffinate for those purposes. And then natural terpenes obviously, that’s where you get the, you know, the natural terpenes that occur, that you get out of the plant. If you use our process, you know, obviously, you can get those natural terpenes out by the by the bucket load. And then you have the crude oil, you have winterized oil, you have distillate isolate, and then what’s missing on the slide because it’s an old slide is the broad spectrum. And then the engineered basically broad spectrum and formulation. So that’s typically the broad the bulk products that you get from hemp. So you can see it’s if you have an extraction facility, you know, you can sell each and every one of those as a bulk product. So a lot that’s why it’s so attractive to a lot of people, you know, they they want to, you know, the first two obviously, with flowering and blended flower, you don’t really need to have, you know, an extraction. But as soon as you want to get into raffinate, or natural terpenes, or CBD crude oil, or any of the oils or or any of the other isolates, you know, then you need to have those things. So,
Randall Thompson 12:12
Dr. Jon 12:13
Next slide here. So, I think this is a kind of a spectrum of the products that you may get from starting, you know, over here at the flower and going over all the way over to the right hand side, which is the isolate in a lot of people like this picture because it really shows it really shows the, you know, how the progression I guess here you have flower on the left hand side, and then it goes to, you know, some ground up flower. And then on the next one slide, that’s a decarbed flower`. So, that’s where you’re, you know, molecularly you know, decarboxylating the material in in that processes where you can also get all your terpenes and then there’s your crude Oil in the middle and then as you go to the right here, this would be more like a winterized crude oil that’s with all the waxes taken out. And then here’s some distillate right here, and you can see it’s starting to crash out. And it’s also starting to, you know, crystallize, and here’s the actual crystals. So that’s the, that’s the basic process that you’re looking at. This is a picture of the plant, and those little white things are called tri Chrome’s. And usually they’re all over the flower. You can see them then high density on the flower itself. You don’t really see a lot of try Chrome’s for example on the stems and on the fan leaves. And so the big deal there is that a lot of people want to, you know, use the fan leaves or use the stem or use the root balls or whatever. You may find some very minor cannabinoids that have extremely low level in those in those parts of the plant, but they’re not in any high concentration. So, as you can see in these, these little white, you know, they look like mushrooms almost those are where the CBD is. So a lot of people will try to, you know, basically put this under very cold temperatures like liquid nitrogen or co2, you know, liquid co2, sorry, you know, like dry ice, excuse me, and actually break those off. Oh, and some people do that, you know, try to get it out rather than rather than extracting.
Randall Thompson 14:35
Dr. Jon 14:36
Okay, so that that would be another option. So this is really the biomass composition. Typically, these numbers they move around considerably depending on where you’re getting them and depending on the concentrations of cannabinoids, for example, but this is just just for illustration purposes. If you look at the weight per weight percent of each of the items, you got your biomass today Typically you’ll have water anywhere from you know, five to 15%. And of course your your, your numbers here will change as your water amount changes. You have other components these are basically the phytonutrients that are in the in the materials and then you have the waxes and the cannabinoids and the terpenes. So that’s the biomass composition. You know, as we go through the hemp processing, a side of this we start off with a receiving and then we go into quarantine. We go into grinding, of course, the extraction, the de waxing distillation, if this distillation step is pretty important because that’s where you’re really that’s your feedstock for isolate, that’s also your feedstock for a broad spectrum. And that would also be the feedstock for you know, you know, the other other things that you would use for formulation. So here’s where you formulate and then you go into your packaging. So this is kind of the processing and in in where you get the products out. That is is a picture a nice looking picture of some crude oil. You can see it almost looks sticky. That’s because it is. And it’s also brightly yellow. So this is the stuff that comes right out of the spigot really in your extractor. And if you let it if you put it in a jar right away, and you just close it, it’ll stay yellow.
Randall Thompson 16:23
Dr. Jon 16:24
Yeah. But if you and also you have to just put somejust basically protected from light. It’s like it’s light in oxygen both.
Randall Thompson 16:35
Dr. Jon 16:36
Yeah. Right. And so but but more so light, I think. But yeah, so you just put it in there. And otherwise it’ll turn you know, like a dark like a darker amber color, obviously. And this would be like a supercritical co2 style of a oil. You can also it’ll be more soupy and a little bit more light. More “terpeney” if you’re doing like subcritical runs
Randall Thompson 17:03
Dr. Jon 17:04
So that that’s the that’s the difference there. And okay, let me see here. I’m going to go on to the next one here. Here’s an example of it looks like it went off again, buddy.
Randall Thompson 17:24
technical difficulties are because we’re trying to also share this with our social media followers. And so we’re putting it on a different screen. So we’ve got like, five screens going at the same time.
Dr. Jon 17:34
Yeah, there we are.
Randall Thompson 17:35
Dr. Jon 17:36
We’re gonna get some simulcast going on here real soon. So it’s exciting. Okay, so um, yeah, this is uh, this is an example of, say, a collection that occur you can see it’s kind of soupy coming out where it’s almost all actually runny. Yeah. And it’s, it’s nice and bright yellow. Um, a couple different things here. You know, typically, if you have you know, if you have Like older material or material that has kind of sat around for a while, a lot of times the chlorophylls get broken down in the plant and then you extract it, those oils are typically more yellow, as opposed to like super fresh material. Typically those will extract and they’re more amber color. So that’s that could be this here could also be a function of, you know the age of the material. Also, on our machine, we have three different fractions, we have a first fraction, the second fraction, a third fraction, typically the first fraction has a lot of the carotenoids. If that will will basically precipitate out that first one, so that’ll be a little bit of a darker Amber, then the final fraction, which is more light yellow. So that’s that and then here’s the crude composition again, this will change up depending on the amount of terpenes that are left in the biomass material and also depends on this here. Number depends on the pressure and the time. So you got a bunch of different variables here. So they will vary but, you know, on average, for your crude, you’re looking at, you know, 60 to 70%. Okay, with with a certain amount of waxes in there, you can decrease the waxes by going to a lower pressure. And also, on this one right here, if you’re using a co solvent like ethanol, for example, some people use co solvents, they use like a food grade ethanol in the flow like a one to 5% or something like that. This will be very, very soupy. And also Yeah, it will be about that color, but it will be very soupy. So if you use that, you know, cosolvent they’ll also be ethanol in here. So that would be
Randall Thompson 19:52
Absolutely is the terpene level at 3% that you have here?
Dr. Jon 19:56
Randall Thompson 19:57
Is that going to be the same effect You remove the terpenes at decarb?
Dr. Jon 20:04
right So you’re removing a lot of those lower boiling terpenes and higher boiling terpenes you know, stay in there but they’re still terpenes so you’re getting out the but they are, you know, they show extract and so you’re getting portion of the terpenes out with the extraction, and then you’re getting the, the terpenes that are mostly, you know, responsible for the flavor and aroma and things like that. You’re getting that out, you know in that vacuum distillation.
Randall Thompson 20:36
Dr. Jon 20:36
Okay, let me see here. So then um, here’s here’s a picture of some of the distillate James took these pictures as we love that picture. Good job, James. And you notice how he put the light behind it. So he took it in front of the window. There’s a whole technique on what you know what you would do to basically You know take a good picture of distillate. So you want the light to be shining from the back so you can see it nice nice bright yellow. it really looks nice
Randall Thompson 21:09
you want to warm it up too
Dr. Jon 21:10
it has to be warm. Yeah because the distillate itself is so potent that it’s going to you know typically for CBD it will it will precipitate out and it’ll be it’ll be opaque. So, yeah, you have to heat it up. So you know, if you want to take CBD, distillate roll up pictures like that. Those are some of the tricks of the trade you know, make sure it’s backlit, make sure it’s warm, you know, things like that. So make sure you have the correct correct exposure in it with your camera on and things like that. So, you know, here’s the distillate composition. Here you can see that’s different than the crude because you’re you’re increasing the amount of cannabinoids in the distillate and you’re doing that by you know, removing the other part of the biomass Removing a part of the, you know, plants. So the, you know, all the Phyto nutrients, I guess, if you will, it’s removing the terpenes You know, this terpene level actually can be even less than 2%. But you know, typically the terpenes that come out with the cannabinoids are like long chain terpenes. So they’re, they co-distill there’s a very small amount, but you really can’t smell them in there, but they’re still in there. And then you have like other other stuff that co-distills there. And when I use the word stuff, that’s a highly technical term for
Randall Thompson 22:35
That’s a term I understand
Dr. Jon 22:36
all that other stuff. No, yeah, it’s the plant matter. You know, what is it? It’s thousands of compounds
Randall Thompson 22:41
and I appreciate you speaking my language.
Dr. Jon 22:43
Yeah, okay, there we are. So, yeah, and then and then of course, there’s broad spectrum just kind of flying through these so then we can start a conversation. Um, you know, here’s, let me see here
Randall Thompson 22:55
like that, though. Like there was a straw.
Dr. Jon 22:57
Oh, that let me see. Oh, Just looking at a nice, it’s got a nice, that’s a nice color. It’s just beautiful. Nice. I think that this is broad spectrum stuff. And then here’s a picture of isolatte. Um, so, yeah, it typically when you make isolate, you’re going to have to, you know, grind it up, if you don’t grind it up, you know. So you want to when you when you make your isolates really important that you keep your particle size as small as possible. That’s a key aspect of isolate production. And then, you know, obviously, you’re going to want to make sure it’s ground up and then you wash it. So a couple different steps there. But typically, you’re isolate composition. It’s very easy to get like 99% pure, okay, but you’re losing all the other. The other plant materials, the plant composition, you’re losing it
Randall Thompson 23:45
Dr. Jon 23:46
and terpenes are gone, water is gone. You know, you maybe have some other stuff in there that you don’t really know what it is. Um, it could that other 1% could be other cannabinoids that could that co precipitate out with the With with the CBD now I am speaking primarily to CBD here but THC Also, if you’re making THC isolate, you can actually do that you know in your system with a cold finger with your in your extraction system, the recoveries are not so great with that. So you have to have different also different forms will precipitate out so typically a decarboxylated THC will not precipitate whereas a decarboxylated CBD will participate a precipitate Well, okay, so it’s kind of, there’s some technical things we can go over, you know those things in a later
Randall Thompson 24:42
Dr. Jon 24:42
Later program but, you know, I think that when you’re looking at isolate, you’re typically looking at, you know, cannabinoids that are greater than 99%. It looks like a white powder. It’s pretty cool. So okay. So that’s, that’s that. Here’s a picture picture of
Randall Thompson 25:01
a ball jar.
Dr. Jon 25:01
Yeah, with some, uh, this broad spectrum. And here’s the broad spectrum composition. You know, with the broad spectrum typically you’ll, you’re, you’ll get some terpenes in there, you’ll get some cannabinoids in there, but your THC will be out of it. Okay, so that’s the main difference between like a broad spectrum and a full spectrum.
Randall Thompson 25:24
So really the the main difference, okay, so full spectrum is everything you get from all the cannabinoids, you’ve got terpenes in there and you have THC. Right?
Dr. Jon 25:33
right Yeah. And typically, it’s considered to be less than point 3% less than point
Randall Thompson 25:38
3% correct. And then, but broad spectrum is all of that without the THC. So if it for a layman, you’re looking at full spectrum includes cannabinoids, terpenes and THC at point 3% or below, right and broad spectrum is the same but without the THC.
Dr. Jon 26:00
Randall Thompson 26:00
Dr. Jon 26:01
yeah, you got it.
Randall Thompson 26:01
I get it.
Dr. Jon 26:02
I think I have Oh, let me pull this down. Oh, you mean this? Oh, there’s a table.
Randall Thompson 26:07
Oh, of course, of course theres a table Okay. I jumped ahead teach.
Dr. Jon 26:15
All right. All right. All right. Well, I find tables to be nice because you can you know, kind of
Randall Thompson 26:20
you can eat on them. set drinks on them
Dr. Jon 26:24
true. It’s true. Okay, I think it’s time that we
Randall Thompson 26:27
Dr. Jon 26:28
We try some of these.
Randall Thompson 26:31
So, he wants to calm me down.
Dr. Jon 26:35
Okay, so here’s a here’s a comparison. Okay, so here you have full spectrum, broad spectrum, full spectrum and then full spectrum THC. There’s a difference between CBD and THC and then engineered okay. So with a full spectrum, CBD you typically have less than point 3% but there’s still there’s still THC in there. Their terpenes are limited. Okay. But they they would still have terpenes in there out trace terpenes basically, and you will be able to taste them if you if you taste them. There’s other plant components that are present. Unlike for example, you know, like an Isolate, which wouldn’t have a lot of those other plant components. The CBD amount is really defined by the plant and the other cannabinoids are defined by the plant. So if you have a CBG CBD 50/50 plant in the biomass that’s kind of what you’re going to be getting full spectrum.
Randall Thompson 27:32
Dr. Jon 27:32
yeah. And the same Yeah, so that Yeah,
Randall Thompson 27:35
CBG is really hot right now.
Dr. Jon 27:37
Yeah, it is. Well, I think a lot of people are growing it and and so next, you know, this coming season, everybody’s going to have a CBG product for sure when
Randall Thompson 27:46
the research is getting better because most of the research has been done on CBD and THC and you have terpenes right? And then now they’re really growing. Now you’re hearing a lot more about CBG because we’re learning more about it. Right then we’re learning more about CBD a and CBD CBN Right, right. Right. Right cool stuff.
Dr. Jon 28:05
Yeah. Um, yes. So that’s that now I think broad spectrum is where you’re really taking out that THC. There. You know there’s a difference between THC free and THC and non detect. And the difference there is one has no detectable THC with a detector you’re using which is typically in HPLC UV and you know and then the THC free is also a non detectable THC that you can’t see with the detector that you’re using. So what’s the difference? I think a lot of people are using the word THC non detect these days because the FDA doesn’t want them to use THC free. Because you can always
Randall Thompson 28:48
because it is not necessarily free. Right?
Dr. Jon 28:51
Right. You can always see you know, a couple whatever. What’s the limit of detection and mass spec mass spec is very sensitive. detector right so oh you’re looking at it and they’re saying okay well we can see 10 molecules so therefore it’s not THC free yes so that’s why people want to use the word THC non detect which is also kind of weird because you’d have to really define which detector using okay
Randall Thompson 29:16
so if I start tasting and sampling some of this will I be able to detect that with my naked eye you
Dr. Jon 29:23
no with your naked tongue we’re gonna make you
Randall Thompson 29:28
Dr. Jon 29:29
it’s gonna be good it’s gonna be good oh spectrum THC, no spec on the THC at all. You can have as much THC as you want. There’s also limited
Randall Thompson 29:38
What is it typical in full spectrum THC non spec? What is what would be an average? Or is there not an average? It’s just is it? 6%? Is it 9%? Is it
Dr. Jon 29:49
You mean with full spectrum THC?
Randall Thompson 29:51
Dr. Jon 29:52
Oh, um, what would be at 80%?
Randall Thompson 29:56
Really? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Whoo.
Dr. Jon 29:58
That’s for like marijuana.
Randall Thompson 30:00
80% percent is a lot of THC
Dr. Jon 30:03
80-90% even for for like a distillate
Randall Thompson 30:06
I would be on my ass
Dr. Jon 30:07
it’s limited in the terpenes there’s there’s other plant components that are in there. But you know a lot of a lot of times what the definitions have been kind of evolving because you have you know, people wanting to have okay like, they say, Okay, I want a full spectrum with 3% CBG 6% CBN and 60% CBD and no terpenes but less than point 3% THC that that really is an engineered
Randall Thompson 30:42
that sounds like a custom formula that is a custom custom for that I’m a layman but that sounds custom
Dr. Jon 30:48
Yeah, so that’s why you got this other thing over here that says engineered because a lot of people want to like they want to pay full spectrum price but they’re asking for engineered formula, engineered stuff.
Randall Thompson 30:59
How do you do that with syringes and
Dr. Jon 31:01
no no, basically you get CBD isolate or you get CBD broad spectrum, you get CBG isolate or CBG, broad spectrum THC isolate or THC broad spectrum, and then you’d put them together in the ratios that they wanted along with the terpenes. Pure terpenes in the it’s, it’s a, it’s a formulations exercise, and that can actually be done no problem.
Randall Thompson 31:20
Okay, and you can do that can can people do that manually? Is it?
Dr. Jon 31:25
Yeah, yeah, it would be done manually. So you’re just starting from your isolates and you’re putting it together.
Randall Thompson 31:30
Dr. Jon 31:31
You know, so that that would be the main difference. And so I think that a lot of people I mean, I think that that’s where the markets going, you know, because you have, okay, here I have a jar of matrix here. I have a jar of my purified terpenes I have a jar of, you know, purified CBG I have a jar pure purified CBN. And then I put them together and the ratios that I want Yeah. So there’s there’s all So um I don’t I forget the number of cannabinoids, but there’s a quite a few of them. I should know it off the top of my head was 120. Okay, well, good that you No,
Randall Thompson 32:17
no, no, actually, I did some research because I knew there would be tables. All right, and probably a test. So I did. I did see 120 now I may be wrong. Hey, if you know, let me know.
Dr. Jon 32:28
Yeah, yeah, put it in on the notes. So let me see. Oh, we got a whole bunch of comments and questions.
Randall Thompson 32:33
I know, we’ve been focused on the table.
Dr. Jon 32:36
So yeah, I think, you know, I think that there’s been some confusion over full spectrum CBD and engineering spectrum where a lot of customers if you are in the bulk business, where they want to impose an engineered formulation, and say it’s full spectrum because it’s a lot less money, actually. So just make sure that you have your definitions proper. You know, and that you’re quoting the right, you know, obviously, an engineered formulation is going to be more expensive than a full full spectrum formulation. So, and then a broad spectrum, you know, use chromatography or solvent techniques to get to a broad spectrum. And what that means is basically you’re taking some of that distillate and you’re removing the THC, and they call that THC remediation, or, you know, THC removal would be another another word. But, you know, that’s where you get the THC non detect. So that that’s kind of the deal there. Now, when we, you know, we’ve, you know, a couple years ago, when before CBD wasn’t such a craze, when we talked about full spectrum THC, we typically were talking about, you know, the terpenes, you know, like a full spectrum on the terpenes. Okay, and I think that that’s still is a good definition. But I think, you know, I think that a lot of people have tried to kind of evolve it. Because, you know, let’s say go back maybe four or five years ago, where where CBD wasn’t really talked about a lot. You know, we typically would do formulations of THC CBD ratios, that would be full spectrum. And we kind of always talked about it when we were doing our formulations as Okay, we’re actually, you know, having a full spectrum. You know, terpenes
Randall Thompson 34:19
Dr. Jon 34:19
So that So, I don’t know, I think that the definitions have evolved a little bit.
Randall Thompson 34:24
Dr. Jon 34:25
And people talk about it in a different way.
Randall Thompson 34:27
Because they’re pulling in a lot more of the cannabinoids, not just the terpene. Right. Yeah, let’s talk about it. Yeah,
Dr. Jon 34:32
that’s right. So, anyway, just be careful of it. I think that just make sure that you have if you’re quoting it out for a customer if you’re a bulk person, you know, make sure that you quote out the right. You know, the right what you’re doing. Yeah, because some, your customer will have a different definition of full spectrum than you do. It’s very likely gotcha. Okay. And that the Yeah, so I think I made my point there. pros and cons for both products okay crude, distillate, isolate, broad spectrum, okay? Some of the pros for crude obviously, most most like the plant smells great, smells awesome. If you get a co2, the crude oil for say, you know for an ethanol we’ll have like that, you know a distinct ethanol odor to it okay? So and also it has a full spectrum of terpenes and that means it’s it’s got the higher boiling terpenes that are also in there right? It’s opaque it’s not smokeable it’s less potent and the terpenes are degrading over time. So you can actually see that occur if you just leave it sit there and do a time lapse you can see it turn like from bright yellow to you know, darker Amber. Gotcha. Yeah. And then the distillate a lot of people go to distillate because it’s clear, it’s desirable color. Usually it’s that light yellow color. People love that because takes great pictures when it’s not crystallized, of course, so it has to be heated up. And then backlit and backlit, yes, limited terpenes but has definite plant taste. So if you taste the terpenes and will have a plant taste, and usually elevated THC levels, that’s kind of the cons. So you have to really go to a broad spectrum if you want to get that THC out of there or you have to have a diluent or some way to dilute it so that it’s this less than point three diluent that’s what they call it, feel you you can do that with MCT oil or you can do that with like a different type of
Randall Thompson 36:34
I thought that was just another name you call me. Sorry.
Dr. Jon 36:40
Isolate white powder, no terpenes or fats or waxes nice for formulations if you don’t want that plant taste so with the isolate, you know, that’s where you know, if you don’t want a distinct terpene or didn’t don’t want a distinct plant taste at all use the isolate in your formulations. But at least resembles the plant. So it’s it’s kind of the most processed that you’re going to get. And then the broad spectrum it has that clear color as long as it’s not crystallized, no detectable THC. So that’s a pro for that, but it has that definite plant taste. So some people when they’re making you know, gummies or edibles of any kind, if or even, or even smokeable products, you know that those tastes will come into the product. Okay, so in your formulation, you want to have a nice berry flavor that’s clean and clear. A lot of times you won’t use like crude or distillate or broad spectrum even you’ll use some isolates. So that’s a nice, clean, clear, fruity taste. If you want to have a hint of marijuana plant or a hint of hemp plant, then you can use a you know, distillate or isolate maybe together, you know, kind of formulated together to get the taste and the flavor that you’re that you’re really looking for. So that’s a lot of fun. And that’s actually the that’s actually the the the funnest part of the whole process and that is you got all your stuff there. You got all your different types and you’re actually testing things out. You’re trying them they’re they’re tasting good. All that didn’t taste good. I don’t like That’s too much. And you’re really making a formula. So and there’s an there’s basically an infinite number of them
Randall Thompson 38:17
we did that in the r&d Lab the other day.
Dr. Jon 38:18
We did. Yes, we did. And it was fun. We did a we did a what was that the extraction of with everclear. We did extraction of flower with everclear. And he drank the whole thing it was I was very impressed. Well, yeah, good. We had a good afternoon after that.
Randall Thompson 38:35
Wow. I actually did, I got a lot done. Well, I think I got a lot done.
Dr. Jon 38:41
He was just sitting here the whole time.
Randall Thompson 38:43
Like, wow, I’m getting a lot done.
Dr. Jon 38:48
Basically like that, so let’s try some of these.
Randall Thompson 38:51
Dr. Jon 38:52
Randall Thompson 38:53
This is fun.
Dr. Jon 38:54
Randall Thompson 38:54
Dr. Jon 38:56
Oh, and we are going to talk about the entourage effect. Good night. We got an illustration because I do have a couple slides on that, but we’ll come back to it. Okay, so let me Let’s go to some, we’re gonna do some trials whenever we talk about
Randall Thompson 39:08
the entourage effect. I really want a disco ball. I don’t know why.
Dr. Jon 39:13
Okay you try an isolate first, okay, um, see here isolate.
Randall Thompson 39:17
Yeah. And I can tell that to isolate. Yeah. Because, because that’s what it says right there. Isolate that’s how I know.
Dr. Jon 39:26
Do you wanna put on some gloves?
Randall Thompson 39:27
Yeah, I put them on my head.
Dr. Jon 39:29
Randall Thompson 39:32
I used to do that to my kids.
Dr. Jon 39:37
Randall Thompson 39:38
Remember that Elijah?
Dr. Jon 39:46
Right. All right here. Let’s see we got their kind of set up with a little what’s awesome about this is you’re gonna do all the testing.
Randall Thompson 39:54
Yeah. Is that what’s awesome about Yes.
Dr. Jon 39:57
Yes, you are. Yes.
Randall Thompson 39:59
Don’t Don’t cough into that.
Dr. Jon 40:01
There we go.
Randall Thompson 40:02
I’m tasting that?
Dr. Jon 40:03
Yeah, you can taste it. Yeah. Tastes it’s just a little tiny bit. You don’t need a lot.
Randall Thompson 40:08
Just Just a little bit.
Dr. Jon 40:10
Just a little bit. Yeah.
Randall Thompson 40:11
All right, just take it?
Dr. Jon 40:13
Sure. Little tiny bit have any taste?
Randall Thompson 40:19
There’s really no taste
Dr. Jon 40:21
Randall Thompson 40:22
There’s no flavor. There’s nothing. Yeah, no, no flavor, no taste nothing, not just kind of.
Dr. Jon 40:32
So you can see that if you want to have like a berry flavor or whatever, you know, this is the stuff that bring it. Yeah, let’s bring it on. So yeah, this is highly insoluble in water though. So keep that in mind. It will not go into water
Randall Thompson 40:45
It does not cause their not small enough Enough, right?
Dr. Jon 40:48
No, it’s not. Yeah, well, that could. That’s a part of it. But no, it’s just how it’s very hydrophobic. It’s it’s like, yeah, it is not going to go into water. It’ll. So he’s putting
Randall Thompson 40:58
hydrophobia. It’s afraid of water.
Dr. Jon 41:00
If you put this into your tea, this will likely stick to the walls or you know you won’t be or it’ll float on the top and look like scum. So you want to have more like a water soluble thing? We don’t we haven’t really talked about that. But we can do that later. Yeah, let’s just kind of put it on my piece of paper there. Yeah, because this is, let’s try this one. Next. This is broad spectrum.
Randall Thompson 41:21
We’re cleaning this up.
Dr. Jon 41:22
You can see it’s all crystallized out. We have this we made this by the liter obviously. And let’s see here. So broad spectrum distillate This is one kilo. All right. This is trying.
Randall Thompson 41:35
That’s a big taste.
Dr. Jon 41:37
Smells great smell.
Randall Thompson 41:40
Dr. Jon 41:42
Randall Thompson 41:44
Oh, he’s getting a big spoon. Oh my god. Okay,
Dr. Jon 41:51
here it is. Okay, we’re gonna try this out here.
Randall Thompson 42:01
Oh, that’s got flavor. Yeah, yeah. That’s got flavor.
Dr. Jon 42:06
We’ll see. It’s all crystallized out there.
Randall Thompson 42:08
Yeah, but you can you can taste the plant. You can taste the
Dr. Jon 42:12
Randall Thompson 42:12
it’s terpeney II it’s, it’s but and it’s soft. The The flavor is not sharp no it’s it’s more softer rounder that’s beautiful and you taste it on your tongue
Dr. Jon 42:26
you know what’s nice about I like you know what I like about broad spectrum is thatas opposed to like a distillateyou know it doesn’t like the distillate will stick to your tongue. Yeah, and I mean usually you can you can taste it in the back of your mouth for a long long long time. That’s why we save that for last
Randall Thompson 42:40
but this one more on the front of your mouth.
Dr. Jon 42:42
Yeah, it is. Yeah, and it and I don’t there’s no film no so I really broad spectrum I guess I kind of like that. No THC. Yeah, this stuff has a little bit of elevated obviously because it’s in process. So we’re gonna take a little bit of that.
Randall Thompson 42:56
Dr. Jon 42:57
Yeah, this is gonna be great time. Okay, here we go. man stuff gets so hard. Okay, you can see it’s definitely darker. Yeah. Because when it goes through that chromatography process it basically, you know, takes out more of the plant matrix so you don’t you know?
Randall Thompson 43:28
I don’t taste it as much. Oh, okay. Then it hit me.
Dr. Jon 43:33
Interesting the back of the throat. Yeah,
Randall Thompson 43:35
because the other you taste at the front of your mouth, but this one just went. As Ipulled it back, it was like, Oh, there it is. all the way and that really just kind of embraced the whole back of your tongue.
Dr. Jon 43:47
Now, if he’s, if he put this, if you smoke this stuff, you know, typically you want to make sure that you’re going to want to put some terpenes back into it. And you’re not going to want a lot though. I mean, you’re very, very little It’s only a hint. Otherwise it’ll burn in your nose and things like that. So
Randall Thompson 44:04
we don’t want that.
Dr. Jon 44:04
No, no, no, I’m gonna try a little bit that. Oh,
Randall Thompson 44:12
isn’t that? Yeah, it’s it goes to the back.
Dr. Jon 44:15
Yeah, yeah. Oh, there. There it is. This is kind of like a development upon Yeah.
Randall Thompson 44:21
Yeah. sneaks up. Yeah, that’s good.
Dr. Jon 44:24
So there we got some isolate. I don’t think we’re in trying to crude but I think that this is this is fine. This is fine. So that’s what Look, if you ever have a chance to, you know, get some bulk. You know, both tastes and just do some taste testing. Actually, that’s that’s a lot of fun.
Randall Thompson 44:42
It is. It is fun. Yeah. And, and one of the things that I’m I’m thinking is the growing population who’s using CBD are boomers?
Dr. Jon 44:51
Randall Thompson 44:52
Really I mean, that is, I mean, we’re in a $5 billion industry.
Dr. Jon 44:56
Randall Thompson 44:57
And it’s growing to like 23 26 billion. I’ve heard different numbers
Dr. Jon 45:01
says the boomer
Randall Thompson 45:02
over the next three years, and I’m a boomer. Okay. But most of the, I mean, my father, he’s 85. Okay, and he doesn’t want to get high, and they’re terrified of getting high any Boomer who’s taken CBD, they don’t want, I don’t want it I don’t wanna get high I don’t want to get high. And they equate that terpene smell and taste with the potential of gethigh.
Dr. Jon 45:26
Randall Thompson 45:27
Dr. Jon 45:27
Randall Thompson 45:28
But, and we’re going to get into the entourage effect and talking about that, but you know, you want to open the receptors so that you get that full effect of the all of everything. Yeah, and that’s, that’s what’s key. So even though it’s non detect that point 3% THC, there’s enough in there to open the receptor. So you get that benefit of all of the cannabinoids and terpenes
Dr. Jon 45:51
Yeah, right, right. Yeah, right. So for example, if you if you’re going to formulate like a gummy or something like that, you don’t want it to have any plant tastes at all. You’ll certainly get the CBD in there. Yeah, but you want to use a very low, you know, you’ll have limited bioavailability because going in being metabolized in your gut, but it will maintain the clear taste. So a lot of people who want to just, you know, have flavors being the number one thing, then yeah, you definitely use that.
Randall Thompson 46:16
And that’s why the biggest growth right now in CBD is the isolate. That’s what you’re hearing you’re a bit there’s a big market for isolate out there because of that growing Boomer population, wants it in their product, but they don’t want to taste that really cool. terpenes
Dr. Jon 46:31
but they’re missing the entourage effect
Randall Thompson 46:33
they’re missing it
Dr. Jon 46:35
Now, if you can take obviously, you can take these and you can put, you know, terpenes in there. Yep. And that, you know, that’s called typically people call that like a dab, for example, or, you know, some people smoke that. But that gets you the entourage effect plus a pure isolate.
Randall Thompson 46:54
Okay, got it. Yeah. All right. And that’s why if you do
Dr. Jon 46:57
that’s just a formulation
Randall Thompson 46:58
so broad Full Spectrum are just, you know, you want that full effect as often as you can, but many of the big processors putting stuff in all of the the big things are using more isolate.
Dr. Jon 47:11
Randall Thompson 47:12
because they don’t, they’re, they’re looking for that mass thing but you in order to get good formulations, and good taste and flavor, you want to use full or broad broad spectrum that gives you the better flavor. Right?
Dr. Jon 47:26
Randall Thompson 47:27
Dr. Jon 47:28
I just like Alexis common. Calm down, mom. This CBD isn’t gonna get you high or stone.
Randall Thompson 47:38
Dr. Jon 47:40
Randall Thompson 47:41
how many of you out there would like to see your mom high?
Dr. Jon 47:47
Wow, that’s something interesting.
Randall Thompson 47:51
I think my kids raised their hand.
Dr. Jon 47:53
Did you bring those pre rolls here for a reason?
Randall Thompson 47:55
Dr. Jon 47:55
Okay. Yeah, there we go.
Randall Thompson 47:56
Pre roll, pre roll. Okay, so These are interesting.
Dr. Jon 48:02
Yeah? how so?
Randall Thompson 48:03
because what you you get the full effect, right?
Dr. Jon 48:06
Randall Thompson 48:07
so you get the full effect. And it it’s the plant but when it’s lighted here’s the one thing I learned from you just recently is because of the lighting and igniting it the burning actually decarboxylates
Dr. Jon 48:19
Randall Thompson 48:20
And which I’ve learned, the decarboxylation actually activate the THC, whether it’s non detect or not right. And the CBD, right. And without the decarb it’s kind of pointless.
Dr. Jon 48:34
Yeah, the the absorption rates are quite low, like, miniscule.
Randall Thompson 48:38
Yeah. So, so yeah, worthless. Yeah.
Dr. Jon 48:42
Well, yeah. And I think that they’re just an unknown unknown effect.
Randall Thompson 48:46
There’s no bioavailability
Dr. Jon 48:47
that’s what they say.
Randall Thompson 48:48
Yeah. So you need the car, right? You need an activation lab. Pretty much you need to do that. Yeah.
Dr. Jon 48:53
Some people like for example, they. They’ll take the biomass and they’ll decarb it and then Then put those into capsules, hmm, the decarb so that it would you can take it into your stomach and it will absorb up.
Randall Thompson 49:06
Dr. Jon 49:06
Randall Thompson 49:07
Cool. Who knew? You want and by the way, how? Hua Chow we do have a replay. So that’s coming up so you’ll you’ll have access to that also and you know some people want a copy of your your presentation and I don’t know that we have that available but we will have the replay out.
Dr. Jon 49:29
Yeah, so you guys can take a look at it. Let’s go talk a little bit about the entourage effect because I want to get into into our beer tasting session.
Randall Thompson 49:35
Oh, yeah. What the heck are we waiting for?
Dr. Jon 49:39
Right? Uh, okay, so here’s the pros and cons for the bulk products. Okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna take that,
Randall Thompson 49:45
you know, say hey, Randy, shut up.
Dr. Jon 49:48
I made this five minutes before he really did. I really did. So, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna probably I’m going to probably, you know, evolve it a little bit and see if I can come up with something Little bit more power more power. Yeah, no, no, I mean that is how he came out of it. Look at formulations. Doesn’t that look like a great collage? Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know PowerPoint did that for me automatically.
Randall Thompson 50:14
Dr. Jon 50:14
Yeah, I just threw the pictures in there and I pushed I created it said yeah gave me this. Isn’t that great?
Randall Thompson 50:20
That is that’s power.
Dr. Jon 50:21
Yeah, that is your power. Okay, so what is the entourage effect? Thank you for correcting my spelling James. Here we go. So here we go. This is some of the beautiful ground material. It smells wonderful. Okay and and what we’re wanting to do
Randall Thompson 50:39
thank you for not letting me taste that
Dr. Jon 50:40
basically take this into Well, let’s back up. I think we should Oh, I want to open up one of those pre rolls to taste test on that. Okay, okay. No, that would derail. We got jars of flour back there. You guys have seen this. This picture was also taken James because he’s so great a photographer. And yes, that is snow that he has that in it looks like
Randall Thompson 51:06
it’s on the mountain and actually he said he took it right in our parking lot
Dr. Jon 51:09
is mounted up a little snow on there. It’s pretty good. But you can see the different colors that’s that’s from different strains, okay? And they do taste different, they have different you know, different terpenes that are, you know, dominant in there. Okay. So let’s, let’s talk a little bit about sign pharmacodynamics.
Randall Thompson 51:35
pharmacodynamics, pharmacodynamics, pharmacodynamics, pharmacodynamics, pharmacodynamics.
Dr. Jon 51:40
You did it.
Randall Thompson 51:42
Dr. Jon 51:43
Okay. So this is this is what your body does with the CBD. For example, there are two CBD receptors. There’s CB1 and the CB2. And this is very well known you guys can take a look. In fact, there is a World Health Organization report. is actually quite nice because it summarizes all the data and the use and the adverse effects and everything is in there it’s really good, nice summary, you can get it online I would recommend that if you want to learn more about you know, you know how the CBD actually acts in your body go download that it’s free and just type in WHO CBD report you’ll be able to get it but there’s some different things CBD does not appear to act directly with a CB1 receptors. So it is a kind of a it’s it’s thought of it to be an agonist for example, neuro imaging studies in humans and animals have shown that CBD has effects which are generally opposite those of THC so you know it has a it has a different different set of effects. Okay, some see some studies have shown that CBD may reduce or agonize some of the effects of THC and the mechanism is unclear. A lot of people are looking For Well, how does this actually working?
Randall Thompson 53:02
I’m laughing. You said agonize, and I like that. That would be agonizing. But the word you have on the screen is antagonize. And I think that that was antagonize
Dr. Jon 53:18
Randall Thompson 53:19
I think actually we do antagonize one another,
Dr. Jon 53:22
in a good way,
Randall Thompson 53:23
in a good way.
Dr. Jon 53:24
Randall Thompson 53:24
And I think we can agonize.
Dr. Jon 53:28
Well, that would be more synergistic.
Randall Thompson 53:31
Dr. Jon 53:31
Yeah, I know, right.
Randall Thompson 53:33
Is that like a CB1 and CB2 receptor.
Dr. Jon 53:37
Okay, so the CBD goes in there. It’s there. There’s some receptors. It’s not interacting with those receptors.
Randall Thompson 53:44
Okay, so CB1 is more neuro. CB2 is more gastrointestinal. yes? That’s what I kind of read.
Dr. Jon 53:52
It’s still it’s still is has some unknown effect within that endocannabinoid system here. It’s been shown to modulate several Non Endocannabinoid signaling system
Randall Thompson 54:02
Why didn’t I think of that
Dr. Jon 54:04
so here they are adenison uptake. A, there’s enhanced activity at this receptor. Okay, so these are all in the blockade of the orphan G protein coupled receptor GPR 55. That’s actually pretty important. So, if anybody has taken a DNA test to show, you know, okay
Randall Thompson 54:22
Dr. Jon 54:23
yeah, exactly to show Hey, look, here’s, here’s
Randall Thompson 54:26
Dr. Jon 54:27
back to you, for example, they’re going to be looking for markers that have, you know, these types of proteins or these receptors in there, and they’re going to say, okay, it’s, it’s likely that you’re going to have a greater effect, you know, for this so that they’re looking at, they’re taking the mechanism of how it’s working in your body. They’re looking at the proteins that your body is making, and then the DNA, the DNA will say, Okay, here you have this. You’re making this protein and it’s probably going to have this effect on you. So it’s actually that they there’s some DNA tests out there. I took one
Randall Thompson 55:00
Dr. Jon 55:01
Randall Thompson 55:01
Do you have history?
Dr. Jon 55:03
Uh, yes. I can remember what it said it said that it will make you fall asleep immediately. Stop it.
Randall Thompson 55:16
Hey, by the way, Richard just said that there are recent research saying that the terpenes connect the CBD to CB2.
Dr. Jon 55:25
Oh, that’s cool.
Randall Thompson 55:26
I think that is cool.
Dr. Jon 55:27
That is cool.
Randall Thompson 55:28
Thank you, Richard.
Dr. Jon 55:28
Randall Thompson 55:29
Dr. Jon 55:29
Um, so yeah, there’s a lot of stuff going on there. So let me let me kind of skip down here because why am I talking to you about this? I’m talking to you about this because CBD, they’re trying to figure out how it interacts. Richard has pointed out that hey, look, we have a look, we’re, we’re looking at it and apparently, you know, it’s interacting with the CBD, you know, CB2 receptor. But then there’s all this other stuff like all of the different terms. Beans, there’s the flavonoids, there’s the other plant materials. There’s literally thousands of compounds that that are in there. And, and there’s what’s what’s known as an entourage effect.
Randall Thompson 56:11
And don’t forget the tetrahydrocannabinol.
Dr. Jon 56:14
Yeah, well, that that to that is called
Randall Thompson 56:17
I read that
Dr. Jon 56:18
that little THC, that will definitely give you an entourage effect. But yeah, so all of those compounds are acting and they’re the reason we call it the entourage effect is because we don’t really know what it is because in order to really understand you’d have to isolate it taking it in, in take it in isolation, and then have a certain thing, targeted indication that you’re targeting for that, you know, so actually, if you have thousands of compounds, you take it it looks that’s why it looks like it’s doing something you don’t really know what it is that’s acting on it. Is it the CBD? is it the combination of CBD plus all of the all of the other compounds? it’s just really hard to know. Sure. So that’s that’s the main thing. So. So that’s what they call the entourage effect. This is basically scientists haven’t figured it out yet. So they give it a cool name.
Randall Thompson 57:13
And it is a cool name. Yes, go ball, baby. And Alexis has a, you know, has a good point as well, that we’ll come back to on on the absorption of this with water solubility. All right. But before I jump there, I want to talk just briefly about the fact that when earlier, there was a comment and I’m not finding it at the moment and that is that there’s a isolate that brought full and broad spectrum are better for you than isolate. And it’s and I don’t think it’s a matter of better for you it’s to you have an entourage effect in both full and broad a full an entourage effect, other than broad has no THC so you you’re missing or not Non detect, right? See, so you’re missing that element.
Dr. Jon 58:03
Yeah. And I don’t I don’t know if it’s really proper to even say like, for example, if you don’t have the entourage effect, that it’s not helpful for you, right? Because it because
Randall Thompson 58:11
not as helpful, right? Because there’s there’s a lot of research saying that the entourage effect does have good effect.
Dr. Jon 58:19
Randall Thompson 58:20
Dr. Jon 58:20
but it’s an unknown because it’s, it’s unknown, and it’s always changing. And you don’t really know what compounds are in. Okay, so you don’t have an indication so you don’t really know. So it’s just kind of like, oh, everybody’s just different. It’s just different.
Randall Thompson 58:32
It’s just different.
Dr. Jon 58:33
I wouldn’t say it’s better. I’d say it’s just different. Right. Okay. So fine. I think it’s fine.
Randall Thompson 58:39
We’ll go with your answer. All right.
Dr. Jon 58:43
All right. Let me see here.
Randall Thompson 58:45
So I want to just mention Okay, I know you’re going on but there’s a lot of a lot of talk out there about water solubility, which is a pipe dream there it because you said it’s water phobic.
Dr. Jon 58:56
Yeah. Well, no, no. So A couple different ways to do that, okay? Either you, you put it together with a surfactant, and then you then you drink it and it will make it water soluble, right? Or you can reduce the particle size to the point where it is small and it it suspends in the water. Okay? So, those are two different ways to do that. There’s, there’s called there’s also self emulsifying systems. So if you put it with a surfactant, that’s an emulsifier. And, you know, typically you need one or two different, you know, you got oil and water immersions are are, you know, it also
Randall Thompson 59:33
sounds like a future show.
Dr. Jon 59:35
Yeah, yeah, that’s we should do a whole show on that.
Randall Thompson 59:37
I agree. And I guess the point is, that water solubility has a lot of it’s a new versioning idea. And the reason you know, I think Alexis made the comment that it’s, it’s, it’s the best way to absorb it, because it’s, it’s the micron levels of those are so small, they could be Yeah, they go in there.
Dr. Jon 59:57
Yeah, they could be via more bioavailable. There’s also liposomes I that’s what was going through my mind Of course, you can take that and supposedly you have bioavailability that’s pretty high we you know we’ve seen a lot of enhanced bioavailability also with like a sugar, sugar you know mixture so things along those lines interest will do it.
Randall Thompson 1:00:18
Okay, sorry I didn’t mean to get away from normal problem this is a pretty graph is like having to say this is probably one of your prettiest graphs
Dr. Jon 1:00:24
Randall Thompson 1:00:25
Dr. Jon 1:00:25
Oh, I didn’t make it. That’s okay, so terpenes and cannabinoids work together synergistically to produce a therapeutic effect. You can see that these other different you know, different terpenes here have their own therapeutic effects like anti inflammatory, and it’s the genic, analgesic, sedative effect Okay, acid reflux here, anti anxiety limonene. Okay, these are shown to basically produce those other effects. So when you add that with this CBD, that’s what’s called the entourage effect.
Randall Thompson 1:01:02
Okay, so, so you’re adding to the already entourage effect inside. Right,
Dr. Jon 1:01:07
right. Okay, so here you go, you have it, I mean, main findings. So these are basically a summary of all the different, you know, main terpenes that are that you would find in the plant. And then along with what the main findings are now, these, these right here are not clinical studies. Just to let you guys know, they’re, they’re one off papers, they’re combination, they’re just a compilation of non controlled studies,
Randall Thompson 1:01:39
and what that means for you out there if there’s opportunity to do this studies,
Dr. Jon 1:01:44
Randall Thompson 1:01:44
go run like the wind buttercups,
Dr. Jon 1:01:46
right? So like, for example, if you know some people, you know, they usually they’ll separate out a D limonene. Or they’ll separate out a linalool and then they’ll, they’ll check it, you know, as a different way
Randall Thompson 1:02:00
every time you say linalool I think you drink too much,
Dr. Jon 1:02:12
So here’s another. Here’s another set this nerolidol nerolidol
Randall Thompson 1:02:19
Dr. Jon 1:02:19
nerolidol Yeah, that’s what I love all this, like a new car smell.
Randall Thompson 1:02:24
Dr. Jon 1:02:24
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it tastes smells really good. If you like that kind of Oh, it doesn’t taste good at all. No, it’s not. I tried a little bit of it and like, Oh my gosh, this is really bad.
Randall Thompson 1:02:34
Doesn’t taste as good.
Dr. Jon 1:02:36
Smells great. Yeah, yeah. So if you want that news car smell tincture? Yeah, I mean, that’s your terpene
Randall Thompson 1:02:42
that’s your terp. It’ll taste like shit. But it smells great.
Dr. Jon 1:02:46
Yes. Oh, that new car smell. So, um, you know,
Randall Thompson 1:02:52
Dr. Jon 1:02:53
I have my own little illustration for, you know, the entourage effect.
Randall Thompson 1:02:58
Why doesn’t that surprise me?
Dr. Jon 1:02:59
Okay. Here it is right here, go right here. deal with this is a, this is an IPA, this has got lots of terpenes in it. And I don’t know if you have more than one pint of IPA, you’re kind of kind of maybe puts you to sleep. You know, you’re like feeling a little tired. Definitely feeling Yeah, definitely. If you have like a light beer does not have, you know, any terpenes any hot. It’s got some hot flavor, but very little hop flavor. Cool, crisp, clean taste like Coors Light for example. Nice can that’s that’s that’s a giant can there. So, yeah, so anyway, yeah. So what were you trying to tell? Tell me? Okay. What was that? Okay, yeah, no, no, this right here, not the slideshow. Okay. Yeah, we’re just trying. Okay, here we go. Okay, We’re gonna sample this now.
Randall Thompson 1:04:03
Dr. Jon 1:04:04
Yeah, exactly. So this is the this is the. This is the one without the entourage effect. And you can have a lot more of this than you can the IPA, you know, super hoppy
Randall Thompson 1:04:14
speak for yourself. Now, that sounds like a challenge.
Dr. Jon 1:04:17
You’re gonna, you’re going to definitely, you know, fall asleep. So, here’s our
Randall Thompson 1:04:22
What is that? Why they say there’s a pork chop and every bottle. Yeah, and then we got in here.
Dr. Jon 1:04:27
All right. Well, here I got I got some taste testing. So I can only find scotch glasses. So sorry. We’re gonna have that.
Randall Thompson 1:04:34
These are really bourbon glasses.
Dr. Jon 1:04:36
There’s no other scotch or
Randall Thompson 1:04:37
Dr. Jon 1:04:38
No, look at look, look right here. See that?
Randall Thompson 1:04:41
Yeah, I see.
Dr. Jon 1:04:42
It’s the glencar
Randall Thompson 1:04:43
Oh, yeah. Okay, these are scotch glasses. I apologize.
Dr. Jon 1:04:48
Hey, the timer is on there.
Randall Thompson 1:04:49
Yeah, I hear I hear the timer.
Dr. Jon 1:04:51
Yeah. Okay, so we’re gonna try this. I’m gonna try this. Okay. And then. Oh, well
Randall Thompson 1:05:00
All right. That’s a weak pour man.
Dr. Jon 1:05:05
Wow. Okay, so so this is this Okay, so we’re doing here this IPA. Yeah, this has a lot of terpenes in it. It’s I don’t know exactly what you’re getting me.
Randall Thompson 1:05:17
Yeah. Cheers. Solud suntec Cheers.
Dr. Jon 1:05:23
That’s not unlike our distillate taste kind of tastes like distillate only liquid.
Randall Thompson 1:05:30
Yeah, well, yes, it does. Okay, so the IPA does grab the back of your tongue
Dr. Jon 1:05:37
Randall Thompson 1:05:38
Yeah, just like the other okay drink the rest of them later okay so now now we’re on to the light
Dr. Jon 1:05:43
Yes Here we are
Randall Thompson 1:05:44
water here we go and so now it’s not smoky it’s clear oh that’s
Dr. Jon 1:05:50
that’s nice and crystal clear it there’s no like aftertaste, it doesn’t linger
Randall Thompson 1:05:58
and just like that The difference is, you taste this more at the front of your tongue.
Dr. Jon 1:06:03
Randall Thompson 1:06:04
Dr. Jon 1:06:04
Yeah. It’s pretty amazing.
Randall Thompson 1:06:06
Okay, okay, so,
Dr. Jon 1:06:08
again, you have beer, which is like an IPA. It’s got lots of terpenes in there. In when I drink IPA, or like a lot of it. It definitely makes me sleepy.
Randall Thompson 1:06:20
Dr. Jon 1:06:20
Yeah. Uh, whereas if I drink like a light beer, it is like, I have no effect at all.
Randall Thompson 1:06:26
Dr. Jon 1:06:27
So maybe that’s for you. Is that not for you?
Randall Thompson 1:06:30
I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m a bourbon guy. Oh, okay, but I’ll drink whatever.
Dr. Jon 1:06:36
We’re gonna test this out. Oh
Randall Thompson 1:06:40
yes, that’s a Kyle’s coming in at four. Okay, all right. So we’ll try this out again Kyle.
Dr. Jon 1:06:48
So yeah, so that’s uh that’s kind of the difference so they both have similar alcohol content and by the way, but but there’s a lot of people not
Randall Thompson 1:06:56
all agrees with know that these are bourbon class. Oh,
really? Yeah. The scotch people
just stole them. I know Renato
Dr. Jon 1:07:02
it’s the it look at it says the glencar and
Randall Thompson 1:07:05
I understand that has to be scotch glasses. I get it. I get it. I get it. Okay. All right. What are we doing?
Dr. Jon 1:07:12
I think that’s it.
Randall Thompson 1:07:13
Dr. Jon 1:07:13
Randall Thompson 1:07:14
This is too fun.
Dr. Jon 1:07:15
Oh, here Here you go. You want to try some more?
Randall Thompson 1:07:17
Of course I do.
Dr. Jon 1:07:20
All right. Have some more as well. All right, too bad. We don’t have all of my guests with us. That’d be fun.
Randall Thompson 1:07:25
I know. Well, they can have a solid Sunday. Okay. And that report that you were doing was the WHO CBD report? Yeah. Who World Health Organization? I think
Dr. Jon 1:07:36
it was done by a couple professors down in University of Kentucky.
Randall Thompson 1:07:40
Dr. Jon 1:07:41
I think so
Randall Thompson 1:07:42
they can higher and deeper baby this.
Dr. Jon 1:07:45
Professors, professors, not PhDs.
Randall Thompson 1:07:47
Dr. Jon 1:07:48
here’s a PhD and here’s a professor professors. Above
Randall Thompson 1:07:51
Dr. Jon 1:07:52
Randall Thompson 1:07:53
Just you’re a PhD.
Dr. Jon 1:07:55
Yeah, exactly. Hey, you have to you know, you
Randall Thompson 1:07:57
have to get there.
Dr. Jon 1:07:58
Yeah, you have to get there. I think Could I couldn’t do
Randall Thompson 1:08:01
it. Okay, so who can drink more IPA?
Dr. Jon 1:08:04
You definitely can cause I’ll fall asleep.
Randall Thompson 1:08:05
I was I was really asking about a PhD or professor.
Dr. Jon 1:08:09
You know, professors usually they go to bourbon or scotch. I don’t know. I don’t have enough bang for the buck with the beer.
Randall Thompson 1:08:18
So okay. Thank you are well, I know we don’t need coffee yet. We’re doing this is fun. Okay. And thank you for being here. Thank you for all the questions. And again, earlier, April told me 263 Yeah, and this is available for replay. Be here. Oh, Richard says IPA has humalene.
Dr. Jon 1:08:46
Randall Thompson 1:08:48
All right. Oh, that’s it. That’s probably why I’m sleeping. And if you drink more of it, it’s more lean.
Dr. Jon 1:08:53
Or at least we think it’s humor stages something promising cancer treatment sweet,
Randall Thompson 1:08:58
Dr. Jon 1:08:59
Richards on his stuff there
Randall Thompson 1:09:00
I know, dude,
Dr. Jon 1:09:02
I’m gonna have to get on the phone with you. He’s more professorial. Yeah, right? Yeah, I guess so.
Randall Thompson 1:09:06
Way to go, dude. All right. And I just call the professor dude.
Dr. Jon 1:09:11
Not Not cool. Not that’s irreverent. That’s irreverent. Yes.
Randall Thompson 1:09:15
Sorry. Sorry, dude. Thank you for being here. This is good. Remember, we’ve got the calculators, talk to our bot. And we still have to name the bot. I have to see what it looks like now. We got to show that
Dr. Jon 1:09:28
it’s boring now
Randall Thompson 1:09:29
Dr. Jon 1:09:29
Yeah, it doesn’t look like
Randall Thompson 1:09:31
Dr. Jon 1:09:31
I don’t know we have to change it.
Randall Thompson 1:09:33
We gotta change it because he’s really cool. Actually. I think he’s always high. But he knows his stuff he does he he’s very focused a focused high. Okay, live tour calculators CBD jam sessions, extraction guides, distillate guides, mini courses are coming. We covered everything on the left one of the things.
Dr. Jon 1:09:55
Yeah, we did this last week. We did a bunch of product tours. So All those should be up on our website here by the end of the week. So if you want to take a look at, you know, our product tours,
Randall Thompson 1:10:06
a lot of you have been asking for that because as we’re going through and talking about evaporation, we’ve been talking about distillation, we’ve been talking about wiped film, falling film, all of that. And this is real life stuff,
Dr. Jon 1:10:19
right? Yeah. So basically what it has is it’s a picture of our equipment and then you can hover over the all the different pieces and you can see okay, here’s what it does and things like that. So people will like it.
Randall Thompson 1:10:30
Alright, thank you for being here. Engage with the bot engage on our site or YouTube channel has a lot of resources. ExtraktLAB.com Right. e x tra k t la b.com. has a lot of resources on it, blog calculators, get to our YouTube channel like us Subscribe, our podcasts go there. This is all on podcasts.
Dr. Jon 1:10:55
Yeah, it is
Randall Thompson 1:10:56
and we’ve got it available on video and audio. We did go a little Long. It’s a little 11 minutes over.
Dr. Jon 1:11:03
Sorry about that,
Randall Thompson 1:11:04
but boy, was it fun. I loved it. So thank you again, and give us ideas of what you want to hear about. I like that. That helps us a lot. Oh my gosh, there’s a lot of stuff coming through. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. We’re good. Great show.
Dr. Jon 1:11:22
All right, man.
Randall Thompson 1:11:23
Take this was fun. I’m drinking more. All right. Thanks for being here. I know. Hot mic hot mic
Dr. Jon 1:11:31
Randall Thompson 1:11:31
Whoo. Oh, don’t say that.
CBD Jam Session 1:11:34
Are you stuck in your hemp or cannabis business? Are you not reaching your processing goals. Here at extraktLAB, we offer a free 20 minute CBD jam session. A CBD jam session is a conversation with an industry expert, not a sales call a conversation where you can talk to us about whatever issues you are having right now and where you are stuck. We will help you uncover any issues you are currently having in your business. Create a solution to fit your current scale. Develop a future scale up plan based on your needs and help you make your processing goals a reality. All while getting your business plan back on track. schedule your FREE 20 minute CBD jam session at 1-651-600-0036. Again, that number is 1-651-600-0036
Stay up to date on our latest releases