Chromatography Explained

Chromatography has become critically important for the widely popular formulations of CBD products including full-spectrum, broad-spectrum, and CBD isolate – all of which are increasingly desired in the growing hemp extract markets. With the ability to selectively manipulate various cannabinoids, terpenes and other materials from the plant matrix, there are a number of methods by which chromatography can be accomplished, and various forms of chromatography have proven themselves to be advantageous for an number of reasons in larger scale extraction.

For a hemp extract to be legal under the 2018 Farm Bill, any particular hemp product must contain less than 0.3% tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a psychoactive cannabinoid. Lawmakers limited the amount of THC that could be present in hemp biomass so as to distinguish it from other cannabis plants that produce high amounts of the psychoactive component.

When the biomass is extracted, however, the amount of THC in the extract is at a higher level than the limit that was established by the Farm Bill. As the oil becomes more refined, the concentration of THC will increase to the point where the oil is no longer fit for commerce.

As a result, many producers have added a separation process into their hemp processing workflow. Hemp extract that has had THC removed from it is known as broad spectrum hemp oil. The production of broad-spectrum hemp oil typically requires the separation of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) from the other cannabinoids in the oil.

In this episode of extrakTALKS, Dr. Jon and Randall Thompson discuss the ins and outs of chromatography in the hemp and cannabis industry. This important final step of hemp and cannabis extraction is critical for properly formulating CBD products in terms of legality and consumer preference. Watch and listen as Dr. Jon and Randall explain chromatography in detail and introduce extraktLAB’s high performance liquid chromatography system – the pure99.

LISTEN to this episode:

[00:00] – Welcome
[02:10] – Giveaway winners
[05:00] – Chromatography Explained
[09:00] – United Science and brands
[10:45] – Blast from the past c2015
[12:24] – What is Chromatography?
[13:30] – What is the column?
[16:30] – An Illustration of HPLC separation
[17:21] – Where is chromatography used in hemp or marijuana processing?
[19:20] – Why do we need chromatography?
[20:12] – Hemp vs Distillate vs Broad Spectrum
[22:28] – Broad Spectrum (THC Non Detect)
[24:00] – Short Path Apparatus
[25:54] – What makes a good separations technique?
[27:48] – What are the steps for chromatography separation?
[35:00] – Pros and cons of thc remediation techniques
[46:15] – Factors affecting throughput
[49:47] – What is an chromatography method?
[51:14] – Full Spectrum vs Broad Spectrum vs Engineered Spectrum
[52:17] – Formulations
[52:55] – Overview
[53:28] – How to tailor formulations for specific indications
[55:55] – Closing words

Randall Thompson  00:00
 Hey, look, we’ve tried so hard to be quiet. It wasn’t impossible. I would say.

Dr. Jon  00:48
He told us not to do our

Randall Thompson  00:50
hot mic hot mic hot mic.

Dr. Jon  00:51
Exactly.

Randall Thompson  00:52
You guys all you could hear us breathing. Welcome to the show, man.

Dr. Jon  00:59
Another one.

Randall Thompson  01:00
Oh, this is gonna be a great show. I’m telling you. chromatography explained

Dr. Jon  01:05
its chromatography rocks. What can I say?

Randall Thompson  01:07
chromatography Does rock

Dr. Jon  01:09
Yeah.

Randall Thompson  01:10
High Performance liquid chromatography rocks. rocker.

Dr. Jon  01:15
Um, right,

Randall Thompson  01:16
 right. Okay. And, you know, we’ve got to get all of those keywords in, right. Oh, yeah.

01:22
Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. Name all Yeah,

Randall Thompson  01:24
chromatography, high performance, liquid chromatography, HPLC machines. HPLC, basics. HPLC, column HPLC. Testing chromatography column. So that’s what we’re going to be talking about.

Dr. Jon  01:34
Why they told us they told us use those keywords. So I think we got that out of the way

Randall Thompson  01:37
Did I slip any expletives in that?

Dr. Jon  01:40
No, you did really good.

Randall Thompson  01:42
Matt. We’ll be happy. Yeah, right. Okay. So Oh, and you know who else is happy?

Dr. Jon  01:47
Hey, you know, speaking that Matt is doing a great job. So he’s, he’s our guy who writes, he does a lot of shadow writing with our blogs and everything. He does a really great job.  He does want it in the shadows. So we’re just Yeah, well, he’s, kind of a low key guy, but he Yeah, he definitely points out the puts out the words.

Randall Thompson  02:06
He likes to fish.

Dr. Jon  02:07
He does.

Randall Thompson  02:08
He does like to fish

Dr. Jon  02:09
sturgeon and yeah,

Randall Thompson  02:10
Matt. Yeah. Whoo. Shout out. Okay, so you know who else is happy? Jason Ford in North Carolina. Brandy. perrigo. in Flint, Michigan. Christina immeuble.

Dr. Jon  02:20
Congratulations,

Randall Thompson  02:21
Osceola. Mills, Pennsylvania. I see

Dr. Jon  02:24
I didn’t know there was another Osceola.

Randall Thompson  02:25
I didn’t know either.

Dr. Jon  02:26
We live in Osceola, Wisconsin.

Randall Thompson  02:27
That’s where we are

Dr. Jon  02:28
Wow, that’s okay.

Randall Thompson  02:30
So and we have a falls not a Mills.

Dr. Jon  02:32
Oh, yeah.

Randall Thompson  02:33
Right. Yeah. Isn’t there a falls downtown?

Dr. Jon  02:35
Yeah, there is. Yeah.

Randall Thompson  02:37
Right on the river. Oh, cool. Anyway, they won some CBD dabs and pre rolls. And the reason for that is because we aired that live on 710.

Dr. Jon  02:47
Yeah, that’s a 710 day and that’s the that’s the dab day.

Randall Thompson  02:51
Dab day.

Dr. Jon  02:52
Yeah, that’s right that dab day. So

Randall Thompson  02:54
I had no idea, but I’m, I’m kind of a dork. So. And all they did is they told us a joke. They shared us on their storyline, they tagged some friends. So it’s always easy to win stuff here.

Dr. Jon  03:06
Yeah, we had. That’s the Outlawz brand, which is the inside hip hop group. So anyway, they have their brand we make it

Randall Thompson  03:15
Outlawz shout out to the Outlawz.

Dr. Jon  03:17
Yeah. Awesome.

Randall Thompson  03:19
Nice. Okay. So be sure to follow us on your favorite social channels and scripts, subscribe on our YouTube channel. Also, lots of stuff, live tour CBD jam sessions, advanced extraction guide, the distillate guide. The calculators are on fire.

Dr. Jon  03:33
They are we have so many people they’re converting. In other words, they’re, they’re giving us their emails, and we’re following up with them. What’s nice about it, they have questions about the calculators, and we can go you know, we can take them take you through it. So if you have a question about, you know what an assumption is in the calculator or what the calculators telling you please give us a call, send us an email, say, hey, we’ll get on the phone with you. And we’ll we’ll help you through it.

Randall Thompson  03:58
I love it. Yeah, that’s what we need to do. Make sure that we’ve got you know, just get those questions in. And that’s why and thank you for being here, by the way, and introduce yourself in the chat. Tell us who you are. You know, whether you’re a farmer grower, whether you’re investor whether you’re a processor, now what are you doing? Who are you? Where are you around the world because we were we’re airing around the world.

Dr. Jon  04:19
Yeah, we had how many attendees we had, like 85 attendees last last week or something.

Randall Thompson  04:24
A lot.

Dr. Jon  04:25
That’s a lot.

Randall Thompson  04:25
Yeah, I think April, April said to me 263. All right. So okay, so when you’re here

Dr. Jon  04:34
263

Randall Thompson  04:36
Well, that’s what she said.

Dr. Jon  04:37
We’re famous.

Randall Thompson  04:39
You’re famous. I’m infamous. Or in-famous, no

Dr. Jon  04:46
infamous,

Randall Thompson  04:47
infamous. Okay, that sounds better. Okay, so if you’re here for the first time, thank you for joining us. This is a no holds barred q&a session. We we do a little presentation we talk about a topic. Just bring your questions bring them and you know, we answer them. We’ve got a team that answers them online. So go ahead and do that. Introduce yourself, tell us who you are farmer, investor processor, what you’re doing. And if you’re here for the first time, and your screen freezes, for whatever reason, just push the red rose reconnect button at the top. It’s in the center and that’ll reconnect, you won’t bounce you out, and you have to relog in blah, blah, blah, it’ll just refresh and you’re good to go. So chromatography explained

Dr. Jon  05:29
its going to be good.

Randall Thompson  05:30
I have been anticipating this and

Dr. Jon  05:32
I’ve been, I’ve been raring to go,

Randall Thompson  05:34
I have too and you know what I learned?

Dr. Jon  05:36
What’d you learn,

Randall Thompson  05:37
I’ve learned that HPLC is not just the name. It’s it’s actually high performance liquid chromatography.

Dr. Jon  05:43
Wow,

Randall Thompson  05:43
I had no idea. That’s dark. Have you ever seen a dork fan money?

Dr. Jon  05:48
Yeah, yeah, cuz I saw you fan money. And this is $100 million. For anybody who wants to know 100 million.

Randall Thompson  05:58
Yeah. And we’re touching it right here. Yeah. That’s our you could have your picture. We use it for fake $100 million.

Dr. Jon  06:06
We use it for bets.

Randall Thompson  06:07
We do. We that’s exactly what we bet. Don’t we. Who? Who can make it the longest in the gemco? No, we don’t do that. Honest. HR.

Dr. Jon  06:22
Secret isn’t? I don’t have to heat. Oh, we heat you up.

Randall Thompson  06:26
What?

Dr. Jon  06:26
Yeah, when you get in there,

Randall Thompson  06:27
you cheat is that what you’re telling me?

Dr. Jon  06:29
That’s what’d happen. You wonder how hot i’ts hot in there See if we can decarboxylate Randall

Randall Thompson  06:37
I have been decarboxylated a couple of times.

Dr. Jon  06:41
Okay.

Randall Thompson  06:42
And that’s even hard to say it. But you can say chromatography.

Dr. Jon  06:46
Yes.

Randall Thompson  06:47
chromatography call high performance liquid chromatography.

Dr. Jon  06:51
We should just add those as little buttons here.

Randall Thompson  06:53
I know. Right? Because this is cool. Anyway, I know you. I’m guessing. Just going out on a limb I’m guessing there’s a table.

Dr. Jon  07:02
There’s a table.

Randall Thompson  07:03
There’s a table?

Dr. Jon  07:03
There is a table you did it. You guessed it. So I got a presentation when

Randall Thompson  07:08
I get the hundred million dollars.

Dr. Jon  07:11
ain’t bad. It’s not fair.

Randall Thompson  07:14
I still get the hundred million. It’s just money. Okay, so thank you get your questions in. We’re going to talk I know you had some opening remarks that you wanted to talk about some preamble on chromatography?

Dr. Jon  07:27
Yeah. Well, I just wanted to basically say, I’m really excited about this topic, because it’s one of those one of those things that we’ve been, you know, I’ve been, I’m a trained chromatographer. It’s kind of my credentials have been doing it for over 20 years. And, you know, it’s been a it’s been a good ride separations of various kinds, but specifically in chromatography. So column chromatography happen to know a lot about it. And I like to kind of teach about it. So it’s fun to do.

Randall Thompson  07:56
So chromatography is your jam.

Dr. Jon  07:58
Yeah, it is my jam.

Randall Thompson  08:00
So has been for a long time. Is that is that like, Dr. Jam doctor chromatography?

Dr. Jon  08:05
Dr. chromatography Jon? Jon, Johnny chromatography. Dr. Johnny T. chromatography.

Randall Thompson  08:11
I like it.

Dr. Jon  08:15
Oh, okay. Whatever. Okay, so what I do have is a is a presentation of yours. Yeah. Well, really, just to get us going. So let me Are we excited when we started? So this is only only like, 50 slides. It’s only take five minutes. Don’t worry. It’s, it’s

Randall Thompson  08:35
like where my sound effects. Oh.

Dr. Jon  08:37
Oh, no. Turn that sound effect. We got to get rid of that sound effects for you, though. Okay. They’re here. They’re gonna Okay, so here I want to share. They taught me how to do new things here. I’m gonna share my screen.

Randall Thompson  08:51
Wow.

Dr. Jon  08:51
All right. Here we go.

Randall Thompson  08:52
who said you can’t teach old dogs new tricks?

Dr. Jon  08:55
Ah, yeah, it looks like that is it now. I want to make sure that I’m going to stop sharing here. One, one moment here. I actually want to share an application window. That’s what I want to do. All right. Share. All right, there we go. All right. Going to share it

Randall Thompson  09:14
technology. There we go.

Dr. Jon  09:17
All right. Um, so let’s get started. We’re going to talk about chromatography. United science, as you all know, is a is a company that produces equipment brands, pure99, co2Cage DrainDroyd extraktLAB, carbon x, which is a nanostructured carbon material. It’s one of our flagship products. We started back in 2009 2010. That’s what we were doing. IGW lab, which is a software hardware combination for you know, for basically laboratory LIMS which they call laboratory information management and quality management. So that’s that’s a hot product and people are subscribing. People are buying the hardware. It’s pretty great because it’s made specifically for the hemp and for the you know, cannabis industries and clearSTILL and fracTRON these are our distillation offerings. So we have a lot of a lot of things to offer someone who wants to get into the business of hemp extraction and the pure 99 is our flagship chromatography product. And really, it’s it’s aimed at those people who want to do larger scale what’s called preperative chromatography. You know, in other words, they want to take the THC out of the CBD.

Randall Thompson  10:37
Okay,

10:37
I always ask them what do you do with all that THC after you take it out of the CBD? And they never say,

Randall Thompson  10:44
I wonder why.

Dr. Jon  10:45
Yeah, they never say, Well, whatever.

Randall Thompson  10:48
We got this hundred million dollars.

Dr. Jon  10:52
They’re coming for us. Okay, let me see. I’m going to advance this thing here.

Randall Thompson  11:00
But it’s fake hundred million dollar.

Dr. Jon  11:02
So a blast from the past. This is essentially a slide that I took out from a presentation that I gave at Canna con.

Randall Thompson  11:15
Okay.

Dr. Jon  11:15
I think it was in Seattle in 2015.

Randall Thompson  11:19
Wow. BC?

Dr. Jon  11:21
BC. 2015 BC And this is when we were we were this is this is actually in cannabis timeline. I mean, it is. I mean, it’s just kind of, you know, grown and grown and grown. So

Randall Thompson  11:33
it was a millennia ago,

Dr. Jon  11:35
very, it was a long time ago, like cannabis years, like dog years, you know, cannabis years and human years. They’re different. They’re different anyway. So we were doing this quite a while ago. You know, we were really looking at, you know, what, what, how you would really engineer a formulation. And so what we decided to do is buy a big chromatography column because we are chromatography. And we decided to start doing separations. And we were, we were separating out large amounts of THC from CBD at that time. And we were putting them back together in ratios. Okay, so this is what we were getting, we were getting starting out with a 15% cannabinoids in like a Dewaxed type of, you know, winterized material. And then basically using HPLC in a large scale, injecting, you know, 30 30, you know, 30 grams, 40 grams at a time onto the column and then changing it up so that you’d have both THC and CBD. Let’s kind of advance then I’m going to talk to you a little bit about what is chromatography, let’s get right into this. Okay, chromatography is a separations technique that separates out compounds of interest into their individual components. Meaning if you have, you know, different components in a liquid mixture, and you want to separate out compound a from compound B, you can do that with a liquid chromatograph. This right here is actually kind of an illustration, I think it’s a movie here, let me see if I can get it. So this is illustration of chromatography process. First, you have your sample in solvent, and you put that onto the column, in most of the molecules are stuck on the column. But some of the molecules, which don’t interact with a column at all are discarded in the first vessel, I have it labeled they’re waxes then they put a second solvent on there, the second solvent basically interacts more with the solvent than with a column and they’re loaded into a separate vessel. And then you add a different solvent, yet a different solvent, and CBD then interacts with that solvent more than the vessel, I’m more than the particles and it goes into a second vessel. So therefore, you have a separation. And that’s what’s great. And some of that’s gonna,

Randall Thompson  13:49
and when you’re when you talked about the column and the chromatography call, right? Is, is that kind of what we’re looking at here on this slide? Is it. So what is it? What is it the column?

Dr. Jon  14:00
Let me narrate it. Okay, so yeah, I guess here, this is the column, you can see the little particles in there, okay, those are typically five or 10 micron particles, or they can be larger if you’re using a flash column. Flash columns are typically 35 to 6063 microns in diameter. So they’re not what they call monodisperse. There’s a whole different variety. If you have a column that’s got like 10 micron particles, usually they’re all pretty much 10 microns, well, so there, that’s what’s called monodisperse. Okay. And typically, what they do is they pack those into a column. Now this is all low pressure type of column here that’s being illustrated. But fundamentally, the concept is the same where you have this set of eluents here or this set of analytes. Here, you’re trying to separate it out from this set of analytes. And so you add it to the column and you can see the green ones stick to the column and the red ones they elute right away.

Randall Thompson  14:55
Eluted analyte

Dr. Jon  14:58
eluted

Randall Thompson  14:58
eluted

Dr. Jon  14:59
eluted

Randall Thompson  15:00
Analyte.

Dr. Jon  15:00
Yeah, and you do that with this,

Randall Thompson  15:02
I’m hearing Harp music in my head just so you know.

Dr. Jon  15:11
Okay, so yeah, so anyway, that’s how that goes. So they’re separated out as a function of time. Okay, so typically the combined equipment and technique there, it’s used all over the world, I mean, in every industry you can think of, except for maybe technology, which is like, you know, software or stuff in the cloud, they don’t, they don’t really use that. But if you have something that’s real, you know, like any kind of food or, you know, pharmaceuticals, nutraceuticals, mining, anything along those lines, you’re going to be coming in contact with some sort of chromatography because people want to be able to measure and control, you know, their processes. So that’s exactly what’s happening here.

Randall Thompson  15:50
Gotcha.

Dr. Jon  15:51
Many different types of chromatography, you got gas chromatography,

Randall Thompson  15:55
GC,

Dr. Jon  15:56
GC, yeah. And, yeah, use that for measuring volatiles, for example. You know, people would use that to measure like solvents. In, in an oil, for example, or liquid chromatography, they would use those to measure or in separate out, you know, different kind of analytes that are in the liquid form. And then there’s thin layer chromatography, and then there’s other forms of chromatography, too, but I’m not going to really talk about those here. I’m going to focus on column chromatography at this point.

Randall Thompson  16:24
Okay.

Dr. Jon  16:25
And so like I said, it’s distinct from membrane separations. It’s distinct from liquid separations. If anybody wants to take a look at some presentation, we made, what, three, four weeks ago on different extraction techniques, and all the different permutations of different extraction techniques that you could, you could use and do. You’re welcome to go ahead and take a look at that video. So let’s advance on to the next slide here. Again, here’s a here’s a, basically that same slide we saw before, just to just just just to illustrate now what we’re doing is we have a mixture here of THC and CBD. And we’re actually separating that out in time. This is the time axis here. If I had a little jar here, and I collected just this time, all that would only be THC.

Randall Thompson  17:17
Gotcha. Yep.

Dr. Jon  17:17
And if I had another jar, a separate jar, and I only collected out this, that would be then just CBD. So that’s exactly what’s happened here and here. And you can see that those are breakable. Yes. Yeah. He went for the he went for it couldn’t help himself. Okay.

Randall Thompson  17:35
You’ve teed it up.

Dr. Jon  17:36
Alright, so there it is. Anyway, so yeah, so that’s what that is. It’s pretty clear. Okay, so where is chromatography used in hemp and marijuana processing? Okay. First of all, analytical chromatography is used to measure like potency, purity and identity. And that’s used to basically at most all of these stages, from, you know, from the quarantine you receive it, you’re checking out, you know, maybe the farmer tells you, he’s got 10%. And, and you measure in your lab, he’s, he’s actually got 5% or maybe 12%. Maybe he’s got 12% in there, you’re doing pretty good. in quarantine, you’re measuring things like, okay, does it free from metals? Is it free from pesticides? is using chromatography to do that? So

Randall Thompson  18:20
and then that’s the HPLC.

Dr. Jon  18:22
Yeah, that is the HPLC. Absolutely. And then same thing with the decarboxylation process, you would measure like the ratio of acids to neutrals. So again, at every step of the way, you’re using some sort of chromatography whether it’s a HPLC or GC. Okay, but here’s what we’re really talking about today. And what we’re going to be focusing on is how do we create broad spectrum distillate with preperative chromatography,

Randall Thompson  18:49
okay,

Dr. Jon  18:50
and there’s a couple different ways to do that you can you can feed your broad spectrum distillate with this with with basically distillate, so you would feed the distillate into the broad spectrum distillate and you would get you would use chromatography then to separate out the THC from the CBD. And, or you could you could basically crash it out and isolate and then clean it up with with your chromatography there. So you can see here what I have, is this, this progression, and that’s really where it’s used.

Randall Thompson  19:23
That’s excellent. And just so you know, out there, questions are coming in, they’re flying in. So I just want you to know, we’re we’ve got a team that’s answering a lot of those questions. We don’t want to interrupt this presentation, because this is a little more detailed, but keep asking the questions and we’ve got a team answering them as we go.

Dr. Jon  19:40
Sweet. All right. Good deal. Um, so let me advance to the next one. So why do we need chromatography I’m going to attempt to answer that you see that beautiful leaf back there. That’s all those beautiful trichrome

Randall Thompson  19:52
Trichromes I’m trying to remember what you call them last

Dr. Jon  19:54
the little little mushrooms. I just remember little mushroom mushrooms. They’re there. I Chrome’s resinous mushrooms and you know if you take any squeeze the flower your your you’ll get some of that resonant your fingers right and it’ll be a little sticky. So yeah, that’s where all of the cannabinoids lay in there. And the deal there is in that trichrome you have resins you have terpenes that are made there you have you know, different phytonutrients that are in there. There’s different chlorophylls for example that are that are in there or xanthophylls and you really want to separate out all those things and make it pure, so that’s why you need chromatography in the hemp world, okay, okay, this is a illustration of why you need to have chromatography specifically for hemp, okay, this first pie graph is for him. And you can see here this is a an un-extracted hemp and say it’s got 61% by weight biomass. And then you have cannabinoids at 12%. And this is let’s say that this is compliant with the Farm Bill so it has less than .03% by weight, THC so this would be fit for commerce, this would be sent to the extractor to extract now as soon as it gets extracted, and you start talking about distillate which is the center, now you’re talking about, you can see how the the concentration of THC now has increased, because you removed all the water your moves part of the waxes, you’re removed part of the terpenes. And now you have the biomass. So as a percentage weight per weight, it’s much greater. And here you’re actually concentrating the THC. Well, which is exactly what extraction is supposed to do. Right? Okay. Um, okay. So then when, when you want to basically remove that THC you use chromatography or use an isolate technique, or what’s called THC remediation, to basically remove that THC and make this which is called broad spectrum. And you can see the broad spectrum now has gone to zero percent THC or non detect THC, and the CBD is there. So this would be fit for commerce. And, in fact, a lot of people are actually desiring and they want the broad spectrum versus the distillate because they don’t want to have a THC in there.

Randall Thompson  22:14
That’s right. So in this in this slide, you’ve got raw.

Dr. Jon  22:18
Yep.

Randall Thompson  22:19
And you’ve got full spectrum.

Dr. Jon  22:21
Full Spectrum distillate. Yep.

Randall Thompson  22:23
And then your broad spectrum, which is the same but with the THC removed.

Dr. Jon  22:27
Right, exactly. And in this arrow here is what chromatography does, or or other what are called THC remediation techniques. Okay, there’s several of them. And I’ll kind of go over what those are

Randall Thompson  22:40
awesome.

Dr. Jon  22:41
Yeah.

Randall Thompson  22:41
Cool.

Dr. Jon  22:42
So let me kind of move on here. So that Oh, there’s a there’s a beautiful ball jar of this is a very large one liter jar. We I think we have that here. Was it last week? Oh, yeah. for last. Maybe it’s a really big jar.

Randall Thompson  22:57
He made me taste it.

Dr. Jon  22:58
Yeah. was it good?

Randall Thompson  23:00
Yes.

Dr. Jon  23:01
Okay.

Randall Thompson  23:02
Is that the right answer?

Dr. Jon  23:04
I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t usually go around tasting things randomly. But, uh, but yeah, no, it was a basically a broad spectrum THC. It’s called THC ND THC non detected because, because there’s not really THC free, there’s always a very trace amount and, you know, analytical chemists. They see everything. And so, you know, it’s not technically correct to call it free because there always be a molecule in there.

Randall Thompson  23:36
So at some point in the future, that’s a good point. Because at some point in the future, there’s a the FTC or the FDA will be coming down on people who talk about T-free stuff. It’s really THC Non-Detect

Dr. Jon  23:48
yeah, that’s already that’s already happened. So yeah, and they have you know, we’d like to call it something else but the preferred term from the FDA is THC, non detect

Randall Thompson  24:00
non detect, so use non detect not free, right? Because it’s not T- free,

Dr. Jon  24:04
right, right. Though they may be a couple molecules in there or three four molecules or whatever, so that you can always see it. Just like just like a solvent residuals, you can always see them, you know, so whether you like it or not, okay, um, a lot of people want to be able to use like short path distillation or they want to use their wiped film distillation to gather the THC out from the CBD. And it kind of makes sense. They’re saying, hey, look, here I have, I have this THCA here I have the CBG here. And you can see the boiling points a lot higher for THC and then look at where CBC is and CBN you think you’d be able to use distillation to do this CBD THC separation best because it’s on boiling points, right? So why couldn’t ya? Well, the answer is you can’t because it’s the resolution is not so good. In other words, You’re only taking out classes of molecules. So it’s kind of like a broad axe. It’s it’s not, it’s not a scalpel, it’s not precision, okay? And everything’s kind of smearing together as it comes out. So you don’t really get that clear, concise. You know, separation the way you do with chromatography. So, the answer to the question about whether or not you can use your short path apparatus, or organic, some kind of white film distillation to do with CBD and THC separation, the answer is no, you can’t do that. It just it isn’t hasn’t been hasn’t been worked out yet.

Randall Thompson  25:38
Because they’re pretty close. I mean, yeah, in that center column there.

Dr. Jon  25:41
Yeah, here’s CBD. And here’s THC. In typically for like molecular distillations you have to have 2030 degrees Celsius difference, and you know, it’s almost there. But it’s not quite there. If you wanted to separate out like acetone from CBD, that would be very easy to do with a short path or wiped film. But that’s because the boiling points are so different. Okay, so that makes sense. So, yeah,

Randall Thompson  26:07
that’s awesome.

Dr. Jon  26:08
Yeah. So that’s why you need to use chromatography. So what makes a good separations technique, you know, a lot of people have different different views about, you know, which technique might be good for THC remediation. And you know, this is kind of a list of checkboxes that I go through, when I think about what is a good technique, I would say that the economical factors are probably really, really high up there, even though they’re occurring low on this list. I mean, it has to meet the criteria of being viable economically. So if you’re not going to, if it’s going to cost you too much, then you can’t do it at all, forget about it. And what I’m talking about, there are the operating costs, capital costs typically are not impacting your bottom line, to the extent that operating costs are they’re impacting it through depreciation, okay, different topic for a different time. But really, if you really want to think about, you know, improving your gross margin, improving your net margin, proving your profit, cash flow, really what you’re talking about is making sure your operating costs are low. So that’s, I would say, that’s the number one thing but you know, there are some other things, you know, like, you want your method to be non toxic, right, you don’t want to, you don’t want to, you know, you want to have good solvent removal, if you end up using the solvent, remove solvent. And then, you know, high mobility selectivity. And this is kind of a big deal, we’re going to be talking about selectivity here. And again, in the next couple slides. So. So that’s, that’s that. So these are the kind of the criteria for what makes a good technique. Also low waste, you know, that’s a big deal. If you have a technique giant, and you have a whole bunch of waste, it just isn’t going to be you know, that costs, there’s a Wait, there’s a cost of the waste. If you’re, if you have for example, you know, a lot of biomass, and it has a lot of solvents in it, that’s a waste that you have to pay someone to get rid of. Okay. So, you know, you got to watch out for those costs that are waste. So what are the steps for chromatography separation? Well, let me let me kind of go through them with you one. One of them, you every chromatography workflow that I’ve ever seen, always starts off with some sort of sample preparation. So you have a sample, you want to make sure that it’s cleaned up a little bit before you put it on to your column. So it’s actually the separation before the separation.

Randall Thompson  28:37
Okay.

Dr. Jon  28:38
And, and, you know, sometimes, like, for example, you wouldn’t want to, you know, if you had, trying to think of a good example, but trying to get Oh, well like with THC and CBD that, like if you’re coming out of your system, you might have waxes in there, you want to make sure that those waxes are out before you do your chromatography. And that’s why people use distillate or isolate to feed their chromatography system. So a lot of people actually start to they go, they crash out, they’ll make isolate, and then they’ll take the isolate, dissolve it, and then they’ll do the chromatography. So a lot of people do that, well. They filter, you typically you want to filter it, you don’t want to have a lot of, you know, gunk in there or free from foreign matter debris is what typically you want to do. So typically, you want to have a DrainDroyd for that or enjoy a hack, because that’ll get you you know, that’ll take your sample which is, you know, large, it’s on the order of, you know, typically you’re talking about, you know, 20 to 100 liters at a time that you’re making up right and you want to make sure that you have

Randall Thompson  29:43
That’s a lot.

Dr. Jon  29:43
Yeah, it’s a lot. That’s nice. You want to filter at all okay, so you want to have a big enough filter, and then you want to have the right concentration of the input on the concentration. And then you want to have a and then you also want to have some some Methods prepared.

Randall Thompson  30:05
We’ve had a couple of technical issues of it’s funny I was just pointing out the fact that his battery is running low. It’s computer so we we may or may not run through here we go the the slide so anyway we we just needed that minor thing so minor as you’re asking about that the question that I have is crash out you use the term “crash out.” Yeah. And that was when they go right from

Dr. Jon  30:33
that was when when you take a distillate in you would crash it out. In other words, you would try to make isolate out of out of the distillate.

Randall Thompson  30:41
Okay.

Dr. Jon  30:42
Yeah. So some people will like, they’ll start off with a distillate, they’ll crash out the CBD, and then they’ll run the the stuff that’s not crashed out, okay, they’ll run that to get rid of a THC, and then they’ll put them back together. Oh, so that’s actually a really great way to do it. It’s a little bit less, it’s an easier separation to do. Um, you know, the other thing would be if you want it to look only at, you know, taking that isolate the stuff that has been crashed out and not make it so pure. And then, you know, more or less just, just just put that through your chromatography machine. So yeah. So, um, also, so then you got to prepare your method, you need to make sure you have a method.

Randall Thompson  31:25
Okay, you brought methods up before?

Dr. Jon  31:27
Yeah, you we have if you want to learn about methods, you can go back a couple weeks ago, we were talked all about methods, right. All the different variables on methods? Yes, I know.

Randall Thompson  31:39
Oh, sorry. That was good.

Dr. Jon  31:41
It was good. Okay. And, you know, all the variables that you need,

Randall Thompson  31:45
but it’s so vital to have those methods.

Dr. Jon  31:48
Yeah. And and also that they’re validated.

Randall Thompson  31:51
Right, exactly.

Dr. Jon  31:51
So, yeah, anyway, so you got to have the method. And that typically, will include a call a middle cluded solvent, it’ll include, you know, all of the, all of the parameters here, your temperatures, your pressures, all of that, okay. And then you run your sample, and you test your fractions with HPLC. So,

Randall Thompson  32:11
high performance liquid chromatography.

Dr. Jon  32:13
That’s correct. You are correct, sir. I can say that five times really fast. Dry.

Randall Thompson  32:18
High Performance liquid chromatography, high performance liquid chromatography, high performance liquid chromatography, high performance, liquid chromatography, higher performance, click Run chromatography.

Dr. Jon  32:26
That’s awesome. All right. Boy, that’s good.

Randall Thompson  32:36
Sorry. did I take you off your game?

Dr. Jon  32:38
No, no, it didn’t at all. That was good. Um, okay. So you run your sample, and then you test the fractions with the HPLC. Okay, what do I mean by that? Let me see if I can give you an example here.

Randall Thompson  32:52
That was a table.

Dr. Jon  32:53
Here. I’m going to go back here. I just want to go back through here.

Randall Thompson  32:56
You’re such a tease.

Dr. Jon  32:58
I know. Terrible. Oh, right here. Okay. This is I didn’t queue it up, right in the presentation. But right here. Oh, yeah, right there. Okay. Okay, so But what if I would if I took a little sample of, of, of this here, and I took a sample here. And I took a sample here and I took a sample here. Those would all be like 100%? Pure THC, right?

Randall Thompson  33:22
Yeah.

Dr. Jon  33:23
What if I took a sample right here, I would say that’d be like 50/50, because both CBD and THC are there. So I know that because I take these samples along this timeline there. I know when the THC is done. And when the CBD begins.

Randall Thompson  33:39
Gotcha.

Dr. Jon  33:40
Okay. And a lot of times, you would use HPLC to help you do that. And that’s how you would take the samples and make it happen. So let me go forward here.

Randall Thompson  33:50
So I’m going to find some transition music.

Dr. Jon  33:56
Okay, this is this is good. This is a good one. This is a good one. I like the sound. We’ve had our technical difficulties, but you know, you’re gonna have to get used to it if you’re going to deal with HPLC.

Randall Thompson  34:06
And us

Dr. Jon  34:07
That’s true. That’s true.

Randall Thompson  34:09
As with Dr. Jon and /i, and that’s why I have sound effects.

Dr. Jon  34:13
Okay. So then you’re going to optimize and then you’re going to remove solvent from the fractions with the falling film. Okay. So you’re going to have a bunch of pure fractions, but you’re also going to have solvent there. And you’re going to want to make sure that you can get rid of that. And falling film is a great way to get get rid of the solvent. In that case, you could there’s a lot of different solvents,

Randall Thompson  34:35
whenever you say falling film I hear in my head, these little screaming molecules as they’re falling,

Dr. Jon  34:42
that that’s probably what’s happening. What happens when they when they transition from, for example, the little molecule transition and like it’s in the liquid and it’s being pulled from the liquid. So it pulls up in it’s pulling out and then it goes away. Oh,

Randall Thompson  35:01
and just like all we did, we did a podcast on falling film.

Dr. Jon  35:05
Yes. If you want to see it,

Randall Thompson  35:06
we went into this in great detail.

Dr. Jon  35:09
Okay, so move the solvent.

Randall Thompson  35:11
headaches. Were pretty fun

Dr. Jon  35:13
test the residuals with GC headspace

Randall Thompson  35:15
GC,

Dr. Jon  35:16
GC

Randall Thompson  35:17
gas chromatography.

Dr. Jon  35:18
All right. So there we go.

Randall Thompson  35:20
I’m just, it’s a table.

Dr. Jon  35:21
So here we go. We finally made it. We’ve arrived, we made it. Okay, so there’s a lots of different ways to remediate. Okay. And I, instead of going through each of the different ways to remediate in detail, which may or may be a future podcasts and everybody’s, they’ll see what comments we get on that, they’ll probably be no way. Don’t do it. Okay, but column chromatography, there’s degradation. In other words, you can take and get rid of the THC, just by cooking it. And in the presence of light in the THC will go away. Well, but so will your CBD. That’s unfortunate. Oh, yeah. There’s also liquid liquid separations, which are basically, you know, partition chromatography, or counter flow chromatography. They are basically liquid liquid techniques. They don’t have a column in them. They’re solvent techniques, essentially. And then there’s the crystallization technique that we just talked about. So when you use this crystallization technique, along with the column chromatography, you can see you’re getting high, high, high, high. So that that’s pretty good. So that’s why people do that. Okay, yeah. And you can improve your throughput, and you can improve your robustness. So that’s, that’s kind of the reason why, why it happened. So let me just kind of go through how I’m comparing these. Okay, um, first of all, one of the main advantages of column chromatography over say, liquid liquid or degradation for sure crystallization is that you’re going to get a much higher recovery, it’s, it’s never going to be perfect, like 100%. You know, because you’re always losing, you know, even even with transfers, you’re losing and things like that. But your column chromatography, by far is a very, very efficient technique. So if you have 100 cannabinoids coming in, you’re going to get 95 out, okay, that’s the kind of thing that you’re, you’re looking at, as opposed to like degradation, which, which means that if you take the THC and you’re like, I’m gonna try to destroy you. And I’m going to put you under light, and I’m going to put you in heat. And I’m going to try to convert you over to CBN, or something along those lines, which people do, you’re also going to be degrading the matrix, it’s going to be like a black sludge. And also, you’re going to be degrading the, the in changing the CBD. So your CBD is going to go down.

Randall Thompson  37:42
That’s what happens to my self esteem when you put me in the heated gemco. Yes, right.

Dr. Jon  37:47
trying, trying to work your way to get out. And, and I’m just turning up the heat. I wonder how long is gonna stay in there? Okay,

Randall Thompson  37:56
we do have fun, it’s all good, good fun. It’s all in good fun.

Dr. Jon  38:01
The liquid liquid, obviously, is a low recovery, it’s not as good as column chromatography. And the crystallization also is not as good, you get a lot of what they call cold precipitation that can happen. So you’re not getting out, you know, hundred percent of the CBD, you’re not getting it all back. Okay, so you’re getting less of a, of a recovery. The selectivity can’t be beat with column chromatography. And that’s, that’s a big deal, because that can really drive your throughput. Okay. So, um, selectivity really means how far of a separation can you get between your two peaks, CBD and THC? Oh, okay. And like, for example, with your, you know, you can’t really get that good separation with the distillation stuff that we just talked about. Yeah. So that’s not a very selective technique, right. Okay. So, um, column chromatography, you can really get that selectivity. In other words, you can say, Okay, I have I have CBD and CBD only in this in this can and I have THC and THC only and this in this timeframe. Okay. So it really is, it really is selective. The degradation is not selective, okay? That’s because it’s degrading everything, right. So that’s not selective, okay? It’d be great if you could just heat it up and THC would go away into CBN. Everybody, no one would have any problem. There’d be no use for chromatography,

Randall Thompson  39:23
but that would be a problem.

Dr. Jon  39:24
But but that would be a problem because everything is degrading, it’s not selective liquid liquid has some selectivity, but you get a lot of co-precipitates or get a lot of co-extraction that’s happening liquid liquid is a lot like you know bulk extraction essentially. And then same thing with the crystallization, you get a high selectivity with crystallization you know, you can but does not very the recoveries not so hot. So you get a high selectivity, but the recovery is not so okay. So these, this selectivity here really drives the throughput how much can you put through you through pretty unit time. So here you have a high throughput here for the column chromatography. And some people would say, Well, look, I don’t, I don’t agree with that at all, because because my chromatography unit is really slow, well, you just have the wrong chromatography unit, or you have something that’s too small for what you’re trying to do. So you just need to get a bigger unit. Okay? bigger, better, faster, stronger. Sounds good. And, you know, on the throughput, you know, with the degradation, the liquid and the crystallization, those are all like stir pot techniques. So you just get a big pot, all your stuff in there, you stir it, you know, you liquid liquid, that there are pieces of equipment that do centrifuges, and they have partitioning units. And they call them Craig machines is what they call those. There’s there are those machines out there. But they’re, you know, I don’t know about I guess, I don’t know the exact throughput number for a CPC machine. So I’d have to check that out. But, but they can be pretty high nonetheless. And then the cost per gram. The reason I have the cost per gram for column chromatography is so low is because the recovery is so high. Think about it, you’re starting with a distillate, right. And if you the more distillate you lose, I mean, that’s really costing you a lot, because it’s a highly refined, if you’re talking about losing, you know, 2% of a hemp biomass, okay, that probably doesn’t make any difference, because there’s hardly any, you’re not losing hardly anything, right. But when you’re talking about losing, you know, five and 10 and 20% of a highly refined oil like distillate, those costs are very important that you that you are, keep those in mind. So that’s why I have it’s such a low, low number there, it’s a low cost per gram, because the recovery is so high, as opposed to degradation, which is a, it seems like it would be super simple, right? And super on not very costly. Because you’re just heating it up on a hot plate. how simple that could be, that doesn’t cost a lot, right? No, but you’re you’re degrading all of the product that you just made. So that that’s no good. And the same thing here with the liquid liquid in the crystallization, these ones are primarily driven by solvent costs. So that’s the one thing now this also can be driven by a high solvent cost if you don’t have the pure99. The pure99 is a is a piece of equipment that has an automatic recycler to it. So it recycles all the solvents. So that’s pretty sweet.

Randall Thompson  42:33
Wow.

Dr. Jon  42:34
Um, you can see here, the column chromatography gets a medium score for the robustness. And what that means is that you’re, you know, if you do what they call injections on the column, and you continuously repeat injections again, and again, and again, to try to do more and more separations over time. You know, eventually that column is going to kind of wear out, sure, okay, and you need to change the column, right, with our particular unit that we have on the pier 99, you can, the user can go ahead and change that out on his own. So he doesn’t have to, he doesn’t have to call us in order another computer, or sorry, another another call isn’t have to order, he can just come, you can order the particles from us, and we’ll send them the particles and he can just go ahead and

Randall Thompson  43:17
he basically repacks the column

Dr. Jon  43:19
he repacks the column himself. Yeah, rather than going back to the manufacturer, it’s very inconvenient and expensive. Oh, yeah. You know, a lot of people are trying to come up with very selective materials, I’m kind of in that business myself because of the Carbon X. But with the selective materials, extremely selective materials, what they’re asking for is very, very high costs of your column. So you have, like the molecularly imprinted columns would be one example. I effect I back in 2014, I was talking about molecularly imprinted columns as being a possibility. The issue with that is just just, it’s too expensive. I can’t get up to high pressures with it. You know, there’s, there’s, you know, things like that, that really limit the SEC, the technique. So and of course, we were always interested in doing co2. So I’m here we got degradation. robustness, oh, this liquid liquid in crystallization, it’s pretty high, the robustness, because you’re just talking about stirred vessels. So they’re very robust.

Randall Thompson  44:23
Sure.

Dr. Jon  44:23
And the liquid liquid partitioning chromatography, you really don’t have, you know, like the possibility of a column going out.

Randall Thompson  44:32
Gotcha.

Dr. Jon  44:32
So that’s why that’s why the robustness is, but I would, the robustness scores are the way they are, but I would say overall, I give column chromatography, pretty high scores on the recovery, selectivity and throughput, okay. And you got to really be careful about the robustness. So if you do really good sample preparation, your columns are going to be pretty robust, and that’s going to reduce your costs for changing out your columns.

Randall Thompson  44:56
Gotcha.

Dr. Jon  44:56
So that’s the main thing and the reason I have the cost per gram I’m so low is because, in my view, and if you run the numbers, it’s absolutely true. The cost of really this recovery is really what’s driving a lot of the cost well, so if you can’t recover a very highly refined distillate in a very, you know, to 95% Plus, you’re you’re just throwing away a lot of money.  So the advantages on column is really in that recovery, because it’s the only one listed that rates at high. Right?  right. Right. Right.

Randall Thompson  45:28
Okay.

Dr. Jon  45:29
Yeah. So that, but the negative to that, obviously, is the is the robustness. So there’s a trade off. Every one of these different techniques has a trade off, and you can see like a degradation. I don’t know how anybody would do that. But it is really simple. You take a beaker, you put it in there, you put it on a hot plate, there you go,

Randall Thompson  45:47
but you’ve been getting into THC, but in traditional column chromatography, that robustness would be medium, but because you have the ability to repack yourself,

Dr. Jon  45:56
yeah,

Randall Thompson  45:56
you’ve lowered that cost,

Dr. Jon  45:57
lower the cost dramatically, and then you can also the particles themselves can be reconditioned. So you can have a program and recondition those particles to which

Randall Thompson  46:06
makes it more robust.

Dr. Jon  46:07
Yeah.

Randall Thompson  46:07
Which makes the pure 99. even higher. Okay.

Dr. Jon  46:10
Yeah. Good. So we have we have, you know, I would say that, yes. But if you’re talking about comparing it to a call of technique, yes. That that does not have any column at all. It just you can’t, it’s not that it’s not. So it does have that thing where you do have to do some extra steps to take care of the column. So yeah, that’s the way I look at it. Okay.

Randall Thompson  46:32
Thank you for that table.

Dr. Jon  46:33
Yeah, no problem.

Randall Thompson  46:34
Brilliant.

Dr. Jon  46:35
So look at here, this is the this is the this is the try this the try constraint, the trade the trade constraint,

Randall Thompson  46:42
the tray tray constraint,

Dr. Jon  46:43
yeah.

Randall Thompson  46:44
the trio of constraint.

Dr. Jon  46:45
Yeah. recovery, selectivity and speed. It’s like if you can get your pick two, you can have three. Okay. So you want high recovery and speed, you’re going to sacrifice selectivity. You want selectivity and speed, you’re going to sacrifice recovery. So this is this is what you mean, any of the techniques I just talked about

Randall Thompson  47:01
What if we enter the fourth dimension,

Dr. Jon  47:04
the fourth dimension, love that.All right,

Randall Thompson  47:11
you get it all here, folks.

Dr. Jon  47:13
Okay. Yes, fourth dimension. Okay. the purity of the input materials, first pass versus second pass. So these are factors that affect the throughput. Everybody wants to know, how much can I put through it?

Randall Thompson  47:25
Sure.

Dr. Jon  47:25
Okay. Believe it or not, we have calculators for this.

Randall Thompson  47:30
Really?

Dr. Jon  47:31
Yes, we do.

Randall Thompson  47:31
Where would those be?

Dr. Jon  47:33
They’re not online. But we are making them and we’ll put them up for you guys. So that’s awesome. But you know, it’s actually a simple, simple math. And if you follow our methods and everything which we give you, you’re going to be doing a certain throughput, okay. The amount of THC in the end?

Randall Thompson  47:52
Well, it’s simple math for Doctor chromatography.

Dr. Jon  47:54
Well Okay, well, whatever. But here’s the things that can affect it. Okay, if you don’t like we, there’s some things that we can’t control, right with our methods. Like, we can’t control the purity of the input materials, right? Yeah. Can’t do it. We can’t control the amount of THC in the input material. So the more THC, you know, generally, the slower you’re going to go.

Randall Thompson  48:14
Yeah, you bet.

Dr. Jon  48:14
Okay. So. And that really depends on the method that you’re running and all of that, okay. The selectivity of the method of the separation for THC and CBD, you can change, you know, for example, your solvent composition and separate out those a little bit more, but you’re going to sacrifice speed. So, you know, sometimes you can, you can trade off, you can trade off selectivity for speed. And you can trade off selectivity for speed and recovery. Or you can think of this recovery as purity and also, so that would be another way to think about it.

Randall Thompson  48:48
Oh, wow.

48:49
Yeah.

Randall Thompson  48:50
Well, I want all three.

Dr. Jon  48:53
It’s impossible. I want to

Randall Thompson  48:55
Okay, so if we were to choose recovery and selectivity, yeah. And how, how long would it take to remediate a 7% THC?

Dr. Jon  49:07
How much? Well, because you would be doing you know, you, you’d be injecting several hundred grams per person, you know, per injection. Okay. And, you know, your runs take anywhere from three to five minutes. So, yeah, so it’s, it’s constantly going times that many Yeah, right. So there’s a and then depending on how many shifts you’re running, and how much what the percentage of THC is in there, okay. If there’s a lot of THC, it’ll be more than five minutes in time. Okay. If it’s a little tiny bit of THC, all you have to do is slice off a little tiny bit of THC and get rid of it, then, then you can do a lot faster. Okay, so there, there’s a continuous set of trade offs. A lot of people want to, they’re like, Okay, well just give me a number. Well, it’s actually a range of numbers. And it really depends on what you put into it. So input equals output. So then they want to model the inputs and outputs. That’s what kind of what we do and better for you. I’ll give you a real What you need? Yeah,

Randall Thompson  50:02
right, right performance liquid chromatography. So when we’re talking about chromatography columns,

Dr. Jon  50:07
look at here, I even have some method stuff on here. Oh, what is the chromatography method? Oh, that’s exactly what we need. Okay, so now we were just talking about methods and how to optimize them. Obviously, you have your technique, which is chosen, you get your gas gas, the gas liquid. In this case, we’re doing liquid liquid separations with the column chromatography. We, we, we make sure that it passes that criteria for economics, right, it makes sure that it’s all all set for our residuals and our purity. We choose our solvent, we develop our method, then then there’s some things that we need to do after that we run it, we make sure that all the variables are are selected, the time temperature, pressure cycles, all that stuff, we make sure that we have enough selectivity for the throughput that we want. And then we have a method and we test that reproducibility and reliability, and then that method becomes validated. So that that’s basically what a chrome photographer is trained to do. In what we have done for you guys is we’ve more or less done all of these steps, these techniques are all chosen for you, a method has been developed, the variables have been selected. And we basically stop right here, you have to validate your own method, okay, because a lot of people have their own method, you know, correct validation criteria, and has specifically something to do with your quality system. Okay, so, you know, that’s how that works. So it should be should be pretty good. Anyway, I don’t think we’re gonna go over this, we went over this last week. But this is kind of the idea of how you may tailor and some of the other reasons why you may want to do separations in the cannabinoid or the hemp world, that is to take out all the other different Chrome, different cannabinoids, separate them out, and then put them together into an engineered product like a tincture or something like that. So in this case, you can if you have pure content of pure THC, pure CBD, pure CBN, pure CBC, pure terpenes, you can now create, you know, you can create basically an engineered component, you know what I mean?

Randall Thompson  52:11
custom formulations

Dr. Jon  52:12
custom formulations. Yeah. So, it’s kind of the future, I think, and you’re still because you’re getting a lot of the phytonutrients that go along with the plan. You’re still maintaining a lot of the plant. It’s not like powder isolate. So yeah, and that’s, that’s basically all I had here, then. Let’s see here. Yeah. And then here’s some beautiful pictures and some formulations.

Randall Thompson  52:33
Yeah, this was awesome. Yeah, I learned a lot. Today here. You You earned over a million dollars. 

Dr. Jon  52:43
But I owe you 100 million so you can take it back.

Randall Thompson  52:45
That’s right. Awesome.

Dr. Jon  52:49
Okay, so I’m gonna stop up the screen

Randall Thompson  52:52
stop the screen share. That’s good. So we covered a whole bunch of stuff. We talked about THC remediation, we talked about we talked a little bit about the difference between T-free and T non-detect yes because again there’s always some THC in this so it’s non detect as the terminology you really want to use right? We’ve talked about the difference between T-free you know full spectrum and broad spectrum right. We talked about t free hemp distillate which is

Dr. Jon  53:26
right t free hemp distillate is a chromatography for you know basically treated distillate.

Randall Thompson  53:33
Yeah.

Dr. Jon  53:33
Yeah.

Randall Thompson  53:34
Love it. And then we talked about how does chromatography enabled designer formulations? Because you can dial it in? Yeah, right. Yeah, I like anyway. All right. That’s, that’s good. We, and then, oh, we didn’t talk about was how to tailor formulations. for specific indication.

Dr. Jon  53:52
Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So yeah. Okay. So for example, that question

Randall Thompson  53:57
came in and so we want to talk about that. Yeah. Okay, that sounds good. So, we, we kind of, I had a slide last week, that really was really talked about the different cannabinoids and how they would really address different disease states are different indications. If you are in the business of selling CBD, you cannot make any claims. No medical claims are for any indication unless you have been approved under an NDA, which is a new drug application with the FDA. Okay. But, you know, everybody knows that. It has certain benefits for different things. So we know one of the main side effects of for example, CBD is sleep. So a lot of people will take CBD as a natural way to you know, help them sleep. Yes, absolutely. Which is what everybody’s doing right now after we get. Okay, we need we need a caffeine jolt now that we got I think happened a little bit when we were in our r&d lab making our own potions we

Dr. Jon  55:06
were we was smoking wasn’t it? Oh, smoking.

Randall Thompson  55:09
We did. We did a lot. We made our own concoctions of tinctures the best ever.

Dr. Jon  55:16
Yeah. And by the way, I you know, I’ve kind of been mulling over the idea of making like, a do it yourself kind of kit, wouldn’t that be fun.

Randall Thompson  55:24
Would you guys like that?

Dr. Jon  55:26
Yeah, like, Okay, a little little bottle of isolate a little bottle of distillate, a little bottle  broad spectrum, you know, along with some different flavors and some media and stuff like that, you know, kind of like a where they have those, like, kind of sewer kits or smiley a kits or wine?

Randall Thompson  55:44
Yeah, tasting kit

Dr. Jon  55:46
tasting a tasting kit.

Randall Thompson  55:47
Okay, right. I think we should do that. Why not? I like it. You guys like that?

Dr. Jon  55:52
I don’t know

Randall Thompson  55:52
who’s in?

Dr. Jon  55:53
Oh, nobody’s answering

Randall Thompson  55:56
crickets.

Dr. Jon  55:58
Okay, okay. That just goes, I’ll chalk it up to another one of my failed business plans.

Randall Thompson  56:05
That’s great. No, I love this. Everything we talked about with chromatography, I learned a ton. And making sure I mean, the biggest thing that I learned is, you know that you’re always doing high performance liquid chromatography, as you’re testing for potency. Right? throughout every step in the process, whether you’re a grower, whether your processor at all, that’s what you need to know.

Dr. Jon  56:27
Yeah. So you need to have that in your facility, it doesn’t make sense to send out like, in process samples is a lot different than for example, you know, samples that you’d send out, because you have just made a formulation, you want to get a test. Right? Okay, because a lot of times the in process samples are the ones that you want to know, okay, is it decarboxylate? Or not? Or is my extraction is efficient as I thought it was, or it you know, it do is are there cannabinoids in my residual in my, you know, distillate, I want to make sure that I’m kind of tracking those down, making sure they’re not going offline from a process standpoint. So yeah, that’s what we use chromatography throughout our system. We have a laboratory here, we do hundreds of samples a day.

Randall Thompson  57:09
We do.

Dr. Jon  57:09
Yeah,

Randall Thompson  57:10
because it doesn’t shut you down. You’re not waiting for other tests. HPLC is really workhorse on both potency potency potency. That’s what that does. Yeah. And when you need more than you jump into a gas chromatography or a larger system, or send it out to a third party lab, ready to do your final testing, final testing, functional testing can give you pesticides, right give you metals, it would run you all kinds of stuff.

Dr. Jon  57:33
Yeah. And sometimes, you know, like we have, we do pesticides and metals here too. Along with we do, you know, solvents and things like that. I think it does make sense for someone who’s doing, you know, if you have a solvent based extraction technique, and you should have a GC headspace in your facility, just because So, you know, okay, hey, look, I don’t want to send out samples to customers without knowing number one. And I don’t want to send out samples to, for example, even to the you know, to the laboratory, and then have them not pass it. Right. So I’d rather have I’d rather know before I send it out. Yeah. So that’s a good thing.

Randall Thompson  58:13
And I think that that’s good. Okay, well, this was a great show. Well done.

Dr. Jon  58:17
All right. Well, thank you.

Randall Thompson  58:19
Well done. Thank you for being here. Thank you for coming through. There, there will be a replay make sure you invite your friends. And we’ve got we covered all of these questions. There’s more questions still coming in? Thank you for that and good and our team has been frantically busy, busy busy answering away. So that’s good. Make sure you set up a CBD jam session. If you’ve got something very, you know, there’s there’s a there’s an embedded base out there was been around for years. Okay, and you’re running your facilities and you’re thinking about what do I do for chromatography? What’s that next thing? How do I do custom formulations? This is what you want to do. You can set up a CBD jam session with us anytime we can go through answer any of your questions. Look at those showing you where those calculators are everything. Yeah, right. So and we’re, you know, there’s nothing too small again, even our CBD jam sessions ask anything. Our team is ready to answer that.

Dr. Jon  59:15
Yeah, we like to interact with you. Um, you know, we’re we got a new guide coming out on solvent removal, which is kind of cool.

Randall Thompson  59:22
That’s awesome.

Dr. Jon  59:23
Yeah. And so yeah, I think we’re, yeah, and then our product tours are coming out. They didn’t get launched this week yet. And I’ve been really like chomping at the bit for them, but he’ll be They’ll be here

Randall Thompson  59:34
product tours and we do have our live Tour, which is nice. But then if we spend some time one on one with each one piece of equipment, that’s really been helpful for people whether they use our gear or not, yes really helps from a learning perspective. What is the following film? What is the wiped film technology? What is what how do you do a winterization? Yeah, filtration and D waxing.

Dr. Jon  59:59
How do I make a formulation

Randall Thompson  1:00:00
How do I make a formulation

Dr. Jon  1:00:01
and how do I make a tincture? What What do I use? Yeah, yeah.

Randall Thompson  1:00:04
What’s the difference between supercritical and subcritical extraction?

Dr. Jon  1:00:08
We’ve been we’ve been talking about all this stuff anyway.

Randall Thompson  1:00:10
I know. Yeah, it’s been good. I know like my brain hurt enough to bring one of those money Python head wraps. No, we’re good.

James Hillstead  1:00:21
Are you stuck in your hemp or cannabis business? Are you not reaching your processing goals? Here at extraktLAB we offer a free 20 minute CBD jam session. A CBD jam session is a conversation with an industry expert, not a sales call. A conversation where you can talk to us about whatever issues you are having right now and where you’re stuck. We will help you uncover any issues you are currently having in your business. Create a solution to fit your current scale. Develop a future scale up plan based on your needs and help you make your processing goals a reality. All while while getting your business plan back on track. Schedule your FREE 20 minute CBD jam session at 1-651-600-0036. Again, that number is 1-651-600-0036

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