How to Make Delta-8 THC
There is no doubt that CBD has swept the world as one of the hottest cannabinoids from the hemp plant. With the introduction of the 2018 Farm Bill, a whole world of hemp derived products. So long as a product has a THC content below 0.3% any derivative of CBD is technically legal under this jurisdiction. However, another hemp derived cannabinoid is rapidly gaining popularity in the hemp extraction industry: Delta-8 THC.
“But wait,” you might say, “I thought THC was illegal?” The federal laws permitting the creation of CBD products applies to Delta-9 THC, the cannabinoid responsible for creating a high when smoking or ingesting marijuana products. This psychoactive cannabinoid has been a schedule 1 drug for decades, so what makes Delta-8 THC any different? It all lies in its creation. While delta-9 is abundant in the marijuana plant, Delta-8 appears only in low levels. Because of this, delta-8 has to be derived from cannabinoids found in hemp, not only to create products, but also to ensure those products are federally legal under the 2018 Farm Bill. But how is it made? You’re about to find out.
In this episode of extrakTALKS, Dr. Jon and Randall Thompson show you how Delta-8 THC is made including the equipment needed, the cost of operation and the process to derive delta-8 from hemp cannabinoids. They also explain the legal status of Delta-8, the difference between Delta-8 and Delta-9 THC and everything else you need to know about this fascinating cannabinoid in the hemp extraction industry.
LISTEN to this episode:
[00:00] – How to make Delta 8 Intro
[04:20] – Everything Delta 8
[07:29] – Outline of Delta 8
[08:25] – Chemical Structure
[09:48] – Chromatography results
[10:58] – Is Delta 8 New?
[14:48] – How to make Delta 8 THC?
[19:22] – Sources of Raw Material
[21:05] – Examples of Acids, Washes, and Neutralizers
[26:49] – Beware Unknowns and Residuals
[31:45] – Workflow for CBD to Delta 8 Conversion
[34:22] – What Equipment Do I Need?
[36:32] – How Does Delta 8 Affect Me?
[37:53] – What is Legal Status of Delta 8?
[40:49] – How to Measure Delta 8
[42:19] – Lab: How to Make Delta 8
[46:47] – How much would it cost for that setup?
[47:30] – If You Want to do Delta 8 at high scale?
[53:36] – What is the Market for Delta 8?
[54:53] – Show Special Offer
[57:30] – Closing Words
Welcome to extrakTALKS with Dr. Jon podcast. Dr. Jon is CEO and president of extraktLAB and United Science, an industry leader in hemp, cannabis and the extraction industry. Listen closely as Dr. Jon talks about his experiences, CBD extraction methodology, and the ins and outs of owning your own business. Dr. Jon teaches you healthy business practices, how to increase your profits and steps to take your CBD company to a whole new level. Let’s dive in.
Randall Thompson 00:23
Oh, hi, are we on? We’re on one hot, hot mic. All right, hot mic. Hey, thank you for being one of
Dr. Jon 00:31
beautiful day we have.
Randall Thompson 00:32
It is a beautiful day.
Dr. Jon 00:33
Randall Thompson 00:33
Thank you for noticing. That’s very good.
Dr. Jon 00:36
Look at it outside.
Randall Thompson 00:37
I know it’s nice. We got a whole Bank of Windows behind James and April.
Dr. Jon 00:42
Yeah. So sometimes they cast shadows on us as
Randall Thompson 00:46
well. Yes. They cast a big shadow. Hey, welcome. Thank you for being here. Today is going to be a great day. Those of you who are looking for delta dawn I mean Delta eight. I was singing Delta dawn. Earlier we were we were singing together. We were I didn’t know if you wanted to admit having some.
Dr. Jon 01:05
No, we did. What’s the flower you had on?
Randall Thompson 01:08
I know it kind of ages us.
Dr. Jon 01:11
Just brings me back to the the truck, the Ford truck, you know as a kid.
Randall Thompson 01:17
What do you mean
Dr. Jon 01:17
with a little radio on?
Randall Thompson 01:18
It’s right out there.
Dr. Jon 01:21
Forget it. Okay. Okay.
Randall Thompson 01:23
Welcome. Thank you for being here. Lots of resources today. We got questions all over the place. We’ve got an r&d lab setup. You can see it right over my shoulder here. And so we’ll be migrating over there. Hopefully without any technical difficulties.
Dr. Jon 01:40
I think we’ll do it. It’ll be good.
Randall Thompson 01:42
It’ll be great. Great, great. Nate, by the way, Samuel Gorton from ns Burg falls Vermont, Vermont. Best bourbon.
Dr. Jon 01:51
Randall Thompson 01:51
Oh, not to diss Kentucky Bourbons. But Vermont Bourbons are really good Samuel. He won. What did he win? T shirt and some other goodies. Jared is saying here he won by doing one of our quizzes on LinkedIn. So apparently we have quizzes on LinkedIn.
Dr. Jon 02:07
Okay. All right.
Randall Thompson 02:08
I wonder what we quiz? Uh huh. Interesting. I’ll have to find that. Yeah. Hey, congratulations, Samuel. So check out the quizzes, let me know how those are. We do have live tours, CBD jam sessions, advanced extraction guides, distillate guides, calculators, mini courses, we have all kinds of resources. Thank you for being here. If this is the first time you’re here, there’s a little red button on the top that will allow you to refresh the screen if for any reason you get frozen. Just hit refresh. It doesn’t take you out. You don’t have to re log in or anything. That’s really good. This is a fun and safe place. There are poll questions. So
Dr. Jon 02:42
I’m just going back to this bourbon question. I think we should do a Kentucky versus Vermont bourbon smack down
Randall Thompson 02:50
that would be fun.
Dr. Jon 02:52
blind taste test.
Randall Thompson 02:53
I like it. I do like now. I know. You know Vermont has some really good rye Bourbons. That’s My preference I like rye bourbon, so we’d have to kind of do wheat and rye.
Dr. Jon 03:04
Okay, that’s fine.
Randall Thompson 03:05
And then you kind of have two different flights. Yeah, that’s gonna be a fun afternoon.
Dr. Jon 03:10
You know, we were talking before about doing like a scotch tasting online.
Randall Thompson 03:14
Dr. Jon 03:14
And it’d be kind of fun to fun to do that.
Randall Thompson 03:16
We should also do a scotch bourbon. Smackdown
Dr. Jon 03:19
Oh, well, there’s no there’s no comparison.
Randall Thompson 03:24
Bourbon would obviously win!
Dr. Jon 03:28
we notice Canadian whiskey didn’t even make it. Wow.
Randall Thompson 03:34
But see, a lot of the Vermont rye comes from Canadian rye.
Dr. Jon 03:38
No, I like that. That whispers the Chad visors. Yeah wisors that
Randall Thompson 03:42
JP wisors is really good.
Dr. Jon 03:45
But that’s a Canadian whiskey.
Randall Thompson 03:46
It is it but it is a bourbon but it comes via Vermont. It is really good if he but it is it is a Canadian, right. Anyway, the more you drink the wiser you get.
Dr. Jon 03:56
All right. We should probably not digress too much. I guess what We got a lot of ground to cover this is delta 8
Randall Thompson 04:04
Okay, questions please introduce yourself also ask questions no holds barred questions everything is going simple tough join the chat invite your friends there will be a replay there will be a replay there will be a replay all right um Today’s topic is everything delta 8 yeah delta 8 Delta eight THC you know the you know we’ve all heard of you know what has happened with Delta nine Delta nine THC THC-a we’ve got all that CBD-A those are all kinds of things go on pure THC. So, we’ve got a lot of things that we’re going into on Delta eight. The questions are here and I’m guessing you have a presentation.
Dr. Jon 04:47
Randall Thompson 04:48
you have any tables?
Dr. Jon 04:49
Randall Thompson 04:49
He’s got tables.
Dr. Jon 04:50
Randall Thompson 04:51
Dr. Jon 04:53
I Do I have a table and Okay, so this is going to be a it’s gonna be a lot of fun. Can we get going
Randall Thompson 05:00
I think I think we have to start. Okay, you have it. I thought
Dr. Jon 05:04
we lost you there. Okay, here’s a here’s what happened. Okay, so we we didn’t like, okay, we’re gonna make Delta eight. So we actually made our first Delta eight this week, kind of cool. There’s been a lot of buzz about it. And so I spent Monday in the laboratory and bam, we got it. With a little help from my friend. Shout out to Jagger. So thanks a lot for that.
Randall Thompson 05:22
Dr. Jon 05:22
He basically helped me along and like, Oh, do this, do this. Okay, whatever. And so, we’re just going to kind of show you my results. What we got how we did it, it’s pretty simple. I was pretty shocked at how simple it was. So
Randall Thompson 05:33
I’ve got moves like the Jaggar.
Dr. Jon 05:35
Yeah. All right. Not the MC or the MC.
Randall Thompson 05:38
A different Jaeger.
Dr. Jon 05:39
Okay, let’s, so what I’m going to do is I’m going to go into just a little bit of the presentation. And then we have a lab little lab setup rather than moving, you know, into the facility and having to gown up and everything and probably take five minutes to get it all done. So I just brought the lab here into our studio, and we’ll just kind of I’ll show you how I did it. So So
Randall Thompson 06:00
Dr. Jon 06:01
Randall Thompson 06:01
is a picture. Lab. You know, I always get a little worried because I have this feeling that I’m going to be tasting something.
Dr. Jon 06:09
I guess we Okay,
Randall Thompson 06:12
I get a little nervous. It’s just it’s the anticipation. Yeah. Okay, sorry, go.
Dr. Jon 06:17
No, no, no, I think we should. Okay, everybody who thinks that we should have my friend Randy here. Try out some of this beautiful. Oh, delta 8 Do we have this?
Randall Thompson 06:30
That’ll be fun because I’ve got meetings since afternoon.
Dr. Jon 06:33
Do we have the puff bar? Where’s the puff bar? Okay, I think Jared had the puff bar. Can we get that here? Just make sure I got it. Okay. All right. Okay, all right. I don’t even know what a puffbar. Oh, okay. Okay. Shoot. It’s said it was broke. Oh, okay. So okay, whatever. We’re probably not going to try it on there. Maybe you dodged the bullet. Okay, it’s the whatever. So look at this beautiful, beautiful stuff. Usually it’s it’s like crystal white. Clear, but jaggar told me Hey look, doesn’t it people don’t like to have it like super clear because it like colorless, okay, because it doesn’t look like real stuff. So if you know if you process it and they give you a nice yellow color, and we got similar colors, it was just a little darker because we didn’t have time to distill it all. So I’ll cut I’ll show you what we got right over there. Awesome. Um, so how do I advance this?
Randall Thompson 07:24
And while you’re advancing Bowden agree, nice boat ninja. Oh, there we go. Nice.
Dr. Jon 07:29
Okay, so here’s the outline. I’m gonna help you guys out because we got a little bit of material to cover. tell you, you know, basically show you what Delta eight is from a chemical structure purpose.
Randall Thompson 07:40
I like that you use the Delta sign rather than spelling it out. That’s, that’s pretty rad. Yeah, you’re you must be an analytical chemist. Okay, pH
Dr. Jon 07:48
is is delta 8 newly discovered cannabinoid? Oh my word.
Randall Thompson 07:54
Hold the phone. What?
Dr. Jon 07:57
No. Okay, so I’ll just answer that one on one word. No. Okay, how do I make Delta eight? Okay, we’re gonna go over that’s gonna be pretty simple. What equipment Do I need to make Delta eight? How do I scale it up? And how does Delta eight THC affect me and is delta eight THC illegal? So there’s a lot of material here to cover and plus I got a demo so I want to make sure we go pretty quick.
Randall Thompson 08:21
Are you gonna answer those last two questions before I taste it?
Dr. Jon 08:25
No. All right, here we go. So, guys, this is this is like getting into some true chemistry. Okay, this is great. Okay, this is the structure chemical structure of CBD. You can notice there’s a couple different things that differentiate it from THC, which is right here. You can see there’s this there’s this fuse ring oxygen here, right there. And yeah, I think that that’s basically it. That’s that’s the main difference. Wow.
Randall Thompson 08:55
That probably making some delta 8 that’s T rex
Dr. Jon 08:59
is here. That. Okay. All right. So and then here’s Delta eight. The main difference is that the location of this double bond here, you can see that the Delta eight and is over here. It’s switch side, it’s switch sides, right? Well, so there’s really hardly any difference except for the location of the double bond, but it is chemically distinct, obviously. Okay, so that’s what Delta eight THC is pretty simple. I’m going to keep this all really high level, guys. So we’re not going to go into a very many details, but a lot of people want to know how to convert their CBD into this molecule. And they want to know how to convert their THC that they maybe get out of a remediation process and convert that over to delta8. So we’re gonna kind of go over those two, two steps here. Look at this. Okay, this is a chromatogram
Randall Thompson 09:50
Dr. Jon 09:51
What a chromatogram is, is it’s a separation technique, and this is an HPLC separation technique. Look at this green one right here. This is my standard. Okay. So here’s this is THC, CBD A this is CBD and then this is CBN This is THC and this is CBC. Okay, so those are my standards Look how nice and clean they are. They’re all nicely they’re separated from each other. Okay? Now look this this pink line here is actually some of the Delta we made yesterday. You can see that we have some little tiny bit of that probably some of the CBD here or I’m sorry some of the THC here you can see that. But you can see there’s all kinds of other stuff in there. But this big lump here. Basically that’s that’s Delta eight Delta eight comes out right here in the in the chromatogram. It’s THC, just right after THC. Yeah, so we’re gonna kind of go in about a how to do that. And then also we’re going to kind of talk a little bit about these other minor products that are that are produced and what they may be and what you need to know about. It so is is a is delta new? is delta eight a new phenomena? Well, it may be a new market phenomenon, but it’s not really new from the standpoint of people trying to make it out of CBD. This is a paper going back all the way to 1966
Randall Thompson 11:17
I thought it was from 1400s
Dr. Jon 11:21
This goes back all the way to 1481
Randall Thompson 11:24
was the tetrahedron era. Yes.
Dr. Jon 11:28
That’s great. That’s good. I like that. Um, okay, so yeah. 1966 so
Randall Thompson 11:34
I was six years old
Dr. Jon 11:35
people had been talking about this. You know, this is the mushroom paper and he has tons of literature on there. So um, he was starting to do the same exact thing that I’m going to show you how to do basically, you see, you take CBD, you put it into a vessel, you boil it up with some this case he’s using Ethanol and HDL which is an acid and it’s it’s an isomerization reaction. That it occurs. He says it’s a catalysis reaction. And he does actually use catalysis. Okay. But there’s evidence in his other papers that you don’t actually have to use the catalytic materials. And I’ll go through what that is in just a moment. But you can see his using, you know, just normal chemistry techniques, he’s got some ether solution. And yeah, and then you he’s drying it with some sodium sulfate. So that’s very, very clear. So it’s really not, um, you can see it’s not, it’s not new at all, it’s been around for a very, very long time. And all of the side reactions inside products, they’re kind of listed them all in there, but they’re not. You know, each each condition that you have might produce different reaction products. So you’re gonna have to know what those reaction products are before you sell your stuff or make it. Yeah, you make it and then you characterize it in then you can sell it. You don’t want to sell something, for example, with a bunch of unknowns in it, right?
Randall Thompson 12:59
No, We talk about that all the time.
Dr. Jon 13:01
We do talk about that all the time. And that’s one of the, you know, it’s kind of the techie type of bucket chemistry. You go onto YouTube, you watch a video like this one, try to go do it and then you try to use it, then you’re you’re basically creating, you know, you got to look out for residuals number one. And then you also got to look out for for other those other side reaction products that you don’t know what’s in there. So this is another example of another paper. That here he’s using p toluenesulfonic acid, okay, you if you go online, and you read the techie blogs and stuff, they’re always talking about this.
Randall Thompson 13:03
p toluenesulfonic acid
Dr. Jon 13:39
Right, exactly. And you can see in this case, it’s two hours rather than 18 hours, right. So, so they’re using this as a Lewis acid, kind of catalyst. It’s in there at a catalytic amount, meaning it’s a very small amount. There was in this page
Randall Thompson 13:54
just makes it go faster.
Dr. Jon 13:55
Yeah, they even talk about Yeah, it goes faster. They even talk about the mechanisms in there. If you guys want to Go look at that knock yourself out you know, um also other different types of you know derivatives of THC, he’s got a lot of a lot of you know papers on that I’m not going to go through this but I’m I’m basically highlighting the fact that this is very old very well known there’s you can see here he’s using ethanol he’s using hydrogen chloride for two hours he’s got a different he’s again boiling so you can you can kind of just cursory read the literature and get an idea how to do this well use an acid use maybe a Lewis acid and you boil it up while stirring in make sure that it’s under the hood so that it’s not you know evolving you know evolving acid out into the air and make sure you’re wearing gloves and and good good PPE with your eyes and stuff. So how to make delta H THC This is quite simple. You dissolve your CBD
Randall Thompson 14:54
How to make Delta eight THC
Dr. Jon 14:56
you notice I met at the Delta, the black I did. I like that and I you superscript see that now that is that is actually the way it’s supposed to be. If you look into all the literature, that’s the correct nomenclature
Randall Thompson 15:08
delta to the eighth power.
Dr. Jon 15:10
Yes, I guess so. So if you if you don’t want to be an ignorant No, I can’t
Randall Thompson 15:17
What do you say?
Dr. Jon 15:18
No, this is how you normally would.
Randall Thompson 15:21
This is how I normally AM. Is that what you’re saying?
Dr. Jon 15:22
It just came up.
Randall Thompson 15:25
Don’t say don’t say,
Dr. Jon 15:27
Okay, I see? I do have a filter. Okay, this. So the first step is you dissolve CBD and nonpolar organic solvent. You can use a lot of different kinds of solvents. I’ll kind of go over in my table, I’ll show you some of the different options that you have
Randall Thompson 15:44
a nonpolar organic solvent for people like me. Yeah, it just means it’s not cold.
Dr. Jon 15:52
It can be cold or hot. But Fuller, generally refers thank you for that joke. I like that just refers to itself. polarity. So ethanol would be considered a polar solvent. Water would be considered a polar solvent but nonpolar be something like pentene or hexane or something like that. Just check. Yep. Okay, got your back guys. All right and then add, add the acid whether it’s Lewis or bronsted acid, which is your acid. Okay, HCl in the case of mushulem he was using HCl use. P he used the sulphonic acids right to call
Randall Thompson 16:23
Lewis bronsted murukku shum, shrimp, Oman OSHA. Shula mushulem, yeah.
Dr. Jon 16:28
And then and then you stir. It’s pretty critical that you get up to this, you know, 100 degrees Celsius and notice I didn’t superscript that Sorry, guys. Oh, and then one day 18 hours it depends.
Randall Thompson 16:41
So if you take turns during Yeah, no, you
Dr. Jon 16:46
know, we got a little star bar, the stir bars. stirs is an automatic automatic stir. Yeah. Okay. So then you have a temperature hot plate. So you can use a string hot plate for this and you can do it right on the bench. You know, and then and then basically there’s some post processing steps. We tried different types of acids, we tried to acetic acid, formic acid, nitric acid, we tried, you know, like a solid support for the acid using the Lewis acid like alumina, for example, just boiling up the acid in the aluminum. These are some things that I’ll show you in the options, it’s no problem, you get conversion with all of them, it’s just a matter of how fast it is and how how quickly it goes, how fast it is, and then what the side products are. So that’s, that’s the main thing. Once you have obviously you have this acidic stuff over here, you’re going to have to dry it or neutralize it typically uses sodium bicarbonate you’ll get you’ll get two phases. And then sometimes people extract with another polar non volatile or volatile solvent like ether or something like that. It is not, it’s not necessary. You can just you know, wash out some of the color or some of the products and things like that. If you use a little bit of carbon in here, you can also take out some of the color that you see, you know, in the first slide, and then you obviously do testing. So you’re taking this pot right here that that is the stir and you’re testing it, and then making sure that after you wash it, you’re testing it again, and you’re testing it, you’re always testing it. Now this this final product is going to have delta nine in it. Ah, so is that, Oh, I’m gonna use my isolate and go all the way to delta eight and we’ll be perfectly well it’s not really because you have to remediate it again, right? Okay, so now you’re now you’re back to THC remediation. So, and it’s never you know, it’s not never so the conversion is not 100% so you got to make sure that you realize that I’m actually I think I’m going to skip this. This is my little video here. I got a video here. Okay, and this is my yesterday. This is one of my reactions that I was doing. This is 50 grams.
Randall Thompson 18:56
It looks like an automatic stirrer.
Dr. Jon 18:57
Oh what in the Heck, okay, I don’t think it’s working.
Randall Thompson 19:02
It’s melting. Too much. HPL
Dr. Jon 19:07
And then something happened. Oh my gosh. Oh, poor doug. He’s not with us anymore. Okay, all right here. I’m gonna I’m gonna go to the next one here. I’m going to skip this one too because obviously our movies didn’t work because I’ll show you in real time. That’s better, right?
Randall Thompson 19:24
Dr. Jon 19:24
Okay. So this is the sources of the raw materials. You can use a Delta nine distillate, um, you know, you want to make sure that’s not when it’s fully winterized distilled, obviously, a lot of people like to use their isolate Delta nine waste, you know, because you’ll get delta nine out when you make your isolate CBD crystals, okay, and you’ll have this delta nine and usually people just really get rid of it, right? They can’t sell it as a part of a hemp product. Obviously, that’s why they have they have that there. So that’s the isolate way of using it. In probably what’s going to happen, it’s gonna be more complex because you’re, you know, you’ll have you’ll be, you’ll be stirring with acid for basically everything right? You stirring it and then everything’s reacting that’s, that’s in that slew, okay, so it’s kind of tough to identify what the products are, the cleanest way to do it is just use CBD isolate, okay, and that’s something that you know a lot of people can do also this delta nine fraction would have essentially the same problems as this isolate Delta nine waste, but you can use this delta nine fraction converted over to CBD, C are converted over to delta eight, and then use the chromatography again to separate out the delta delta nine, the stuff that hasn’t converted over, okay, so it’s pretty simple, but again, you would be using the same type of thing you do some sort of acid or Lewis Lewis acid along with a combination of an acid stirring in a nonpolar solvent and you heat it up to 100 degrees to start That’s it.
Randall Thompson 21:00
Dr. Jon 21:00
So it’s pretty, pretty simple. Um, here’s some examples of some acids wises label in neutralizers that you guys know if you call look at the literature, there’s this boron trifluoride, that’s the, you know what my shulam calls a catalyst. Okay, and it is a Lewis acid catalyst and basically it’s an electron vacuum cleaner. It says okay, see electrons there? I’m gonna suck them up. Let’s take out Yeah, electron. Yeah, that’s right. So that’s, that’s also the reason why alumina is is in this list here. alumina is also a Lewis acid. And zirconia would work to and then you have but you you typically would acid wash that. So you can buy that all commercially you can acid wash, alumina, which is basically you’re just you’re just boiling alumina in, in an acid drying it, neutralizing the supernate and then using it, you know, so that it’s delivering the acid. This is probably the easy way to deal with deal with the process because you’re just dealing with a powder rather than illiquid and then you have this p toluenesulfonic acid alumina silicate washed acid and magnesium silicate wash acid. These there’s all of these reported in the literature and there’s many more
Randall Thompson 22:19
yeah so Donald once Donald that should answer your question if you got more questions just let us know
Dr. Jon 22:26
but i think that you know you can use something as simple like we did we got conversion was just acetic acid. Yeah, so we got conversion with HCl we formic acid we got conversion, it’s just a matter of how long it took to get there. So it’s still still is converting gotcha. Um, one thing about acetic acid and formic acid is that there are soluble in your solvent, indicate this case a alkane which would be heptane or pentane or whatever you guys are using there. It would be soluble there so not all of these are soluble I don’t know I don’t think nitric acid is soluble in an alkane maybe someone can put that in there. I don’t think it is. But but certainly acetic acid is and you got to use glacial By the way, which is glacial acetic acid which is very highly purified form of 100%. And we’ll go right into your
Randall Thompson 23:17
Dr. Jon 23:18
Yes, it’s glacial into your polar solvent, nonpolar solvent. Okay. Um, okay, so then you have your solvents obviously, there have been reports I mean, there’s some solvents here that you just don’t want to use or even have in your laboratory at all okay, over Yeah, don’t don’t don’t bring benzene to your laboratory. Certainly don’t being toluene into your laboratory.
Randall Thompson 23:38
that would be Bad
Dr. Jon 23:39
you know, you can use some alkanes the issue with the alkanes obviously just buy the N-Alkanes, which are the more purified form of alkanes. You are going to have to worry about residuals okay. And because they will have And so, when you go to your laboratory to get your HPLC is done to see if how pure you are, make sure you give it blank To them, right? Any acid you use is going to have something that absorbs in the, in the UV, and it’s going to show up there. So I would also take and make sure that you’re not just looking at one wavelength to have them look at the entire spectrum, meaning having do a scan from 220 nanometers, all the way up into the visible, like 300 350 nanometers. Okay, what that’s going to do is
Randall Thompson 24:23
220 to 350
Dr. Jon 24:25
Yeah, I haven’t scan it, we they have a certain type of detector that they use for that and that’ll allow you to identify if there’s more issues associated with with residuals and things like that. So and we have we have several podcasts on you know, just basically talking about residuals, right,
Randall Thompson 24:42
Dr. Jon 24:42
and so you guys can go back, we’ll post them in the notes. You guys can go back and take a look at that. Bronsted acids, okay, these are just acids and like I said, we got conversion with just just a straight up acid. We got conversion of combinations of acids, I think, you know, in terms of the best one We just, you know, with acidic acid with this alumina acid wash. That’s was the best one. We just washed this alumina acid and acetic acid, and then it worked out really good. Excellent. So
Randall Thompson 25:11
So, Richard had a couple of quick good questions.
Dr. Jon 25:13
Randall Thompson 25:14
this whole process that we’re talking about, is this an isomerisation process?
Dr. Jon 25:18
Randall Thompson 25:19
Dr. Jon 25:20
Yes. Yes. That’s That’s correct.
Randall Thompson 25:22
I was close.
Dr. Jon 25:23
Randall Thompson 25:23
All right. And then the other question he had a follow up question is, as we’re using these, does one methodology get a more consistent result than another?
Dr. Jon 25:32
Um, you know what, I can’t say I have enough experience with it at the moment. They really say, okay, hey, this, this is better than the other one. We got, like I said, we got a conversion with any of these. If you just use these types of acids, there’s they’re easy to remove. So when you scale up your process, you need to think about a couple different things. Of course, the cost of the process, the cost of the consumables, you’re going to want to make sure that you have you know, easy Way, conversion wise so that you don’t have a lot of delta nine, right? Because if you if you’re just taking your CBD and you’re converting it to delta eight, but you have a bunch of delta nine there, you’re still not able to sell it. Right? Okay, and that is exactly what happened. In our case, we had the Delta nine in there, which which then means you would have to you would have to go and do some chromatography or THC remediation, which should we have a another podcast on that you guys can go back and take a look. We have a whole podcast on separations and our pure 99 is a great way to do that
Randall Thompson 26:35
Dr. Jon 26:35
so yeah, so that’s a couple different things. They’re just just so there’s no real magic bullet, you’re always going to produce in a boiled acid reaction, you’re going to produce a whole bunch of different products. And you know, you really should know what you’re producing before you sell it. That used to be my guess
Randall Thompson 26:51
I kind of have an idea what you’re doing or it just sounds dangerous.
Dr. Jon 26:54
I already thought of that. Oh, look at where unknowns and residual
Randall Thompson 26:58
this would be the danger. zone so it should be in red.
Dr. Jon 27:01
Yeah, at least Okay, so let’s just kind of let’s kind of talk this through guys. Okay, if these are solid supports you, you’re going to get residuals and leachables. From those solid supports, you need to make sure they’re pure. Okay? When you run your, when you run your reaction, you should run a blank reaction, okay? This This is common knowledge, you run a bank reaction, you work it up with not no active product, and then you shoot it and see what your you’re producing. See if you’re extracting anything from those materials, because not all the materials are equal, okay? I mean, you you, you can go on to for example, okay, a good example of that would be if I took the alkanes and I added, you know, like alumina acid wash and I had some carbon in there and I boiled it up, you would be extracting lots of benzopyrenes for example, those are cancer causing,
Randall Thompson 27:51
who wouldn’t know, Who wouldn’t? know that That’s what you do?
Dr. Jon 27:54
You want what you would be doing that and the other problem with that, obviously with If you if you didn’t know what it was, you wouldn’t test for it. You give your consumer a says a hell Look at this. It’s all perfect. It’s good because you’re not testing for it. So yeah, don’t Don’t, don’t do that. So don’t Don’t be that guy. Don’t be that guy. Okay, same thing with yourself. Yeah, you wanna, you want to, okay, I use distilled solvents, distill them, you know, and take all the water out of them and you can re-distill them over like sodium metal is my favorite
Randall Thompson 28:28
Dr. Jon 28:29
Yeah, sodium metal.
Randall Thompson 28:30
I like that.
Dr. Jon 28:31
With a little liquid nitrogen on the track.
Randall Thompson 28:33
Sounds like that could be another music jam.
Dr. Jon 28:36
Yeah, we could
Randall Thompson 28:36
Dr. Jon 28:39
That’s some sodium metal there. Okay. Yeah, that’s a little sodium metal there. Yeah, that’s right. Oh, yeah.
Randall Thompson 28:48
Yeah, we got. Yeah, this is, this is. This is just a little little break from the tables.
Dr. Jon 29:05
all right. Okay, that was a little bumper music for getting to us. And yes
Randall Thompson 29:09
final one we do there will be a replay we have it record.
Dr. Jon 29:12
Randall Thompson 29:13
fully, fully, fully. No worries.
Dr. Jon 29:15
Yeah, okay, whenever
Randall Thompson 29:16
Oh Eli like almost beat me to it.
Dr. Jon 29:18
Let’s see here demand to see a chromatogram Oh, you know, I must have been a really good mood when I wrote this. Okay, here’s the deal. Like I can say, Look this stuff. I can give you a chromatogram Let me show you. He’s in a good right here. Look at this. This is exactly what I’m talking about guys right here. Wow. Okay, look at Delta 8 95% Oh, wow. But they didn’t show you of all the other crap that was in there. Okay, so you got 5% was stuff that kill you. Okay. Think about that. And then you can see not tested for residual solvents. How good is this stuff? Do you want to have this stuff? I mean, no way. No way
Randall Thompson 29:55
You know what would be fun? It would be fun to just do a show on the reading COA’s. Yeah,
Dr. Jon 30:01
we could just do like 30 minutes of this is crap
Randall Thompson 30:04
side commentary on COA’s. Everybody would hate me.
Dr. Jon 30:09
Okay, I gotta okay. So then let me see here. residuals may not be tested. Okay, this is a good example demand to see a chromatogram number one, what the heck is in there? Number two residuals may not be tested, did they test for the unmounts did that test for the residuals and the leachables may be present those may be solid leachables Okay. In other words, they may be ash content they may be, it may be any number of cancer causing, you know, residuals do not take a chance you guys got to know what you’re doing. Okay. So that’s why I say,
Randall Thompson 30:40
Dr. Jon 30:40
We’ll do some bucket chemistry here, but just make sure be smart with it. Yeah, take a look at this. So this is what I’m talking about. You see all this stuff in here that we created. So we took this beautiful, beautiful standard. It wasn’t the standard. It was just just pure, beautiful pure CBD was just this just this peak right here. That was all you would See And then we made all that crap. by by by boiling it in acid. Okay. And then I was like, Wow, well that’s a lot of junk in there is like what is that? Oh, well it’s not even showing up you see it the times are not even showing up so we’re not even identifying what the material is. You see that?
Randall Thompson 31:20
So we just magically make it appear well through science yes science and acid.
Dr. Jon 31:26
Okay, here we go. This is what I’m talking about guys so so beware, buyer beware number one, consumer beware number two, you got to know what you’re doing number three, it’s not a magic bullet number four because you’re going to be creating THC, which is going to have another THC remediation process. So that’s, that’s the realities of it. But But, but, um, this is the basic workflow for basically the conversion. And once you come up with the right technique, using the parameters that I’ve outlined for you, and I told you what I thought work better With acidic acid and the alumina washed acid, here, you have a reaction. This is this is basically just some timings when we did our work. We did some timings to try to understand, okay, what would this look like in terms of, you know, is this a viable process from the standpoint of, you know, over overbearing amounts of labor? No, the answer is no, because most of it is machine time. So you would just be you would put together a process where you do reaction neutralization, solvent removal, THC remediation and testing. And of course, you’d test that every one of these processes here, but you’d want to put this together in a workflow where you didn’t have inventory building up in between, of course, everybody’s heard my our talks on operational excellence, you can go there’s some stuff in the notes, you should go take a look at it because it could save your business. A lot of money.
Randall Thompson 32:52
Dr. Jon 32:53
Just just spend an hour with me. Implement the value stream mapping tools, understand where You know where your inventory is, is falling and you can really save a lot of money and take money off your, you know, free up money from your balance sheet into cash.
Randall Thompson 33:08
Absolutely. That’s converting waste or inventory that’s sitting there that you don’t know what to do convert it into profit.
Dr. Jon 33:15
Randall Thompson 33:15
We talked about that all the time.
Dr. Jon 33:17
Randall Thompson 33:17
that’s what we need to do.
Dr. Jon 33:18
Randall Thompson 33:19
How do you remove cost? And part of that is wasteful just sitting in inventory Just an inventory You don’t know what to do with
Dr. Jon 33:26
Randall Thompson 33:26
right. And now convert that into something you can sell?
Dr. Jon 33:30
Randall Thompson 33:31
Dr. Jon 33:31
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Randall Thompson 33:32
Love it, and I really appreciate you saying that. We talked, but it was it was you
Dr. Jon 33:37
no, we did we talked about it.
Randall Thompson 33:39
We we did we did we did we did we did we did? Yes.
Dr. Jon 33:43
Okay, so here’s the here’s the workflow for CVD delta a conversion and you know, of course, the testing I would test at every one of these phases. So here of course you because I am an analytical chemist. Of course I want to test testers gonna test
Randall Thompson 33:57
test. It’s going to test Yeah. Do you gotta say it right?
Dr. Jon 34:02
Yeah, React here we got the reaction you’re gonna test that we’re gonna test for the neutralization. In fact all the input materials have to be tested okay? Your CBD coming in your delta eight coming in whatever it is
Randall Thompson 34:16
you’re gonna test you gotta
Dr. Jon 34:19
test okay you got to test the speed test you guys okay we’re all happy okay all right what equipment do I need? You know a lot of people want to know that inquiring minds want to know. Oh, you do so you need to have a stirred reactor with a heater condenser on it and
Randall Thompson 34:33
Dr. Jon 34:37
inquiring minds want to know. Okay isn’t quite fun with operator. We want to have wiped film evaporator is the way the only reason you need the wiped film evaporator is is to is to reduce the color, okay? Because if you really do it like at a really high temperature above 100 degrees, okay, you’re gonna get some really dark extracts. I’ll show you what that looks Like I did I bring some No I did not shoot what Okay, I didn’t but I got some really dark stuff yesterday and you know that might that might be good for wiped film. So if you have one of those laying around, you should use it in this case. And then or you could do short path to but I’m a known short path hater.
Randall Thompson 35:15
He is. And that has come up several times.
Dr. Jon 35:18
Yes. Yeah, I’m a hater on short path Okay, and then, preoperative chromatography, obviously, you know, that’s to get the Delta eight Delta nine out, you know, so we’re going to do probably in a couple of weeks, maybe three, four weeks among put that on our show list of doing a separation of delta 8 Delta nine, along with our pure 99. Okay, yeah, I love it. And then the HPLC for analytical so just just let you know, this is what the equipment that you pretty much have to have. Okay.
Randall Thompson 35:51
Yes, and Heidi we’re not trying to be testy. What we’re doing is we’re trying to be a little bit quick so we can get to the lab. He’s so excited about getting to the lab. I can’t Get in touch. It’s like all this pent up energy. Okay, just ready to go, man. And Jason, we’d love to do an article on Oh, yeah,
Dr. Jon 36:08
yeah, we’ll do an article. How many articles do I I mean, I feel like I haven’t been writing you lately,
Randall Thompson 36:14
but you are quite prolific.
Dr. Jon 36:16
But But I haven’t been writing a lot lately. I know I have a leaker. I have a big pile of papers. Got something that
Randall Thompson 36:23
you’ve been working on tables.
Dr. Jon 36:24
Oh, Jared got an article. He wants to know, I’ve been cooking it up.
Randall Thompson 36:32
He really has he’s
Dr. Jon 36:34
Okay, here we go. So how does the Delta eight affect me, okay. Look, anybody can go,
Randall Thompson 36:40
I need to study this. Hold on. Keep going.
Dr. Jon 36:42
Anybody go online and find this information? Okay. There’s I’m not telling you anything that’s not readily available with just a simple Google search. But according to some of our actual user people that we have. Okay, lightly psychotropic lower potency than delta nine. So it’s gonna have a lesser effect than delta nine, it does interact and metabolize in the same way. So it goes in interacts with the same receptors in your body that delta nine does, which is really great. So the kind of the mechanism of metabolism is known already. And, you know, the quickest way to get the dose in is obviously in an inhale inhalation. It kind of bypasses the liver and all of that. So, be very, very careful, obviously, the same type of if you’re taking it internally through the gut, and you know, it’ll eventually get to your brain but you in, you know, but you really need to make sure you don’t overdose. Okay, so typically 10 milligrams per dose. that’s a that’s a typical THC dose. So don’t don’t do any more than that.
Randall Thompson 37:46
Yeah. And we don’t really talk about doses but that’s about the range of what people
Dr. Jon 37:50
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that’s what you want to do there. And then is it legal? Um, there’s been pretty cool. We have let me see Hear oh yeah take a look this is a legal memo that just happened in Wisconsin to this staff attorney. This was to the Yeah. Yeah recently and some people in the state wanted to know Okay, what the legality is and this is from the representative and this this came from kush.com Look at that. That’s funny um, but they they had reposted it but you can see the short answers that’s the substance meaning and definition of hemp is legal for purposes of state federal controlled substances laws regardless of its Delta eight THC concentration. That is the beauty of it. That’s the official of it and that’s pretty cool. So the same things you here’s what you want to do, if you’re hemp producer you want to kind of get into this and take a look at it. First of all, avoid the states that are you know, hemp is not, you know, looked on favorably or not legal. Okay.
Randall Thompson 38:53
Dr. Jon 38:54
Yes, exactly. I wasn’t gonna name the names.
Randall Thompson 38:57
I wasn’t either. I was just rooting for Idaho. I love all their sports teams.
Dr. Jon 39:03
Yes. And then avoid states where hemp derived oils are not accepted. Okay? That’s a good idea. And then hemp derived oils, oils are fit for commerce if they are derived from industrial hemp and have less than point 3% Delta nine THC. Okay. So, um, one of the things that I you know, I was talking to our general counsel about this and we were just kind of going through some scenarios. No, we just kind of going through, okay, the scenario would be okay, what if, you know, you have a you have a legally tendered product, and then you put it out into the marketplace, it has Delta eight but it’s derived from derived and somehow you get busted.
Randall Thompson 39:46
Dr. Jon 39:47
You’re gonna have a you’re gonna, you know, I don’t know, it’s gonna be a lot of money. Basically, to, you know, to try to get out of that.
Randall Thompson 39:57
To prove that it’s legal.
Dr. Jon 39:58
Yeah, you’re gonna have to Especially with the chromatograms that I was showing you hang on let’s go back up to that. Okay, see this is so this THC if you have if you don’t get a nice clear superset separation, right, and you have a little bit of THC in there, you don’t really know how much it is. Okay, that’s something you need to think about. So get all of your THC out. If you’re gonna do it, just make sure you get all the THC out. I don’t know the best. I’m just cautioning people.
Randall Thompson 40:24
bring you’re chromatograph with you whenever you use it. Well, yeah,
Dr. Jon 40:28
just put it in the back of your car. And then when you get stopped, no, no officer, this is actually Delta nine and see here’s the law right here. You can just hand them that memo from the state of Wisconsin.
Randall Thompson 40:37
Where’s my chromatograph?
Dr. Jon 40:39
And you can run it right there. That’s right. Yeah, run this like Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s wait. Okay. Anyway, so that’s, that’s that
Randall Thompson 40:46
Do you have a cup I can use.
Dr. Jon 40:50
How to Measure Delta eight. Okay, guys, this is really super simple. Delta comes out right here. Here’s THC and delta, it comes out right here. So on This is a 70 70/30 water group. That’s not a gradient, it’s just a isocratic phase. I usually use .1 formic acid in both of these phases. You just run it straight out on a reverse phase column with HPLC. And it’ll, you’ll get a separation so and you’ll be able to get more and more selectivity between the isomers a delta 8 delta nine, just by just by decreasing this amount. So you go 60. But see, I was too impatient. I actually want a two minute run instead of a four minute run. I had to wait four minutes to get those results.
Randall Thompson 41:33
You were impatient?
Dr. Jon 41:34
Oh, man. Oh, the other thing I want to tell you,
Randall Thompson 41:36
I can’t even imagine.
Dr. Jon 41:37
Okay, you see this line right here? Okay, there’s a there’s a huge peak that comes out, like at minute 10 and a half. Okay. So I don’t know what I have no idea. I have no idea. We’re, we’re we’re acidifying and stirring 100 degrees.
Randall Thompson 41:55
You’re an analytical chemist
Dr. Jon 41:57
I know, I know.
Randall Thompson 41:58
That means we’re doing a field trip. Someday He’s gonna figure that out.
Dr. Jon 42:01
We’re gonna take a take a look at this guy’s I mean, you just want to make sure that you have you understand what the unknowns are.
Randall Thompson 42:07
Dr. Jon 42:07
that’s about it. So, okay,
Randall Thompson 42:09
Dr. Jon 42:10
I’m just gonna show you a quick demo. It’s not going to be. Let’s go. And then we can get into some of your questions, and we can talk more about it. But yeah, we’ll do a quick demo and show you how I did this. All right. Oh, my gosh, this is awesome. Can you hear me okay? Yeah. Okay. So this is like, rogue rogue chemistry, right. Can you guys get a Can you guys get a pan on this right here? Okay, there we go. Okay, there we are. Okay, now we’re cooking. Okay, by the way, this is a nice little piece of equipment. So this is one of the things you’re gonna need to do use for your little chemistry experiment here. This is called a ball. It’s just a stir stir plate with a heater on it. What’s nice about this one is you can set the temperature that you want the process and it’s got this little probe here, okay. And it’s It’s nice because it’ll, it’ll always keep that temperature about what you want. Okay, so here I have CBD. This is isolate. Okay, so I’m just gonna pour that in here. This is exactly what I did, guys. It’s not not very hard. Okay, this is heptane. So I just poured that heptane in there. Okay. I just splash around. See, look at that I’m gonna start to Yeah, basically, this is what I did. Super simple. Um, this is some of my acid washed Illumina that I did aluminium that I did right here. So I put that in there. And I’m putting it about about 14 to 20% by weight. Okay, so, yeah, so just keep that in mind guys. And then here I have a little acid, a little acid that I’m putting in there. Okay, and it’s pretty good. Now, this is not a volatile acid. One thing is, yeah, means is that you were Not good. We don’t we can’t actually smell it. But obviously, you know, if you’re going to use a volatile acid like acidic acid, you’re going to heat it up to 100 degrees Celsius, it’s going to come off. So you’re going to want to do this in a hood in a hood in a hood is where you’re going to want to do this. So
Randall Thompson 44:15
that’s not wearing a hoodie.
Dr. Jon 44:17
No, no that that is in like in a hood, you know, walk in hood. It’s venting, venting, venting hood. Okay, so then all I do now is I as I change this here, to 100 degrees, watch out for that there. And I’m gonna go ahead and do that. I’m going to turn up this heat. I’m gonna turn this on like that. It’s at 100 degrees, okay, it’s not going to heat up. Now I just set my timer for, you know, maybe three hours and then this will turn color like it’ll turn this color. In fact, right here.
Randall Thompson 44:49
Is that it?
Dr. Jon 44:50
Yeah, this is it. I made this is yesterday. You can see it’s got, you see how it’s it’s kind of it’s got it’s got a heptane in it. So I haven’t removed all the solvent from it yet, but when you take the heptane out you need a rotovap or a fracTRON or something like that to do that then then then this stuff will come to it like an oil. So that’s what that is. So it’s really simple guys but you’re going to get some Delta nine in there and you know, that’s basically it. Notice it’s got a little bit of yellow right there. So that is that now I also showed you this, once you member I put that alumina in there, so those are solid okay and you want to be able to basically filter all of that out. So this is just a simple buechner funnel with a you know with a vacuum on it and a side arm so side arm, and then you have you have like a little adapter here. This is a ceramic buechner funnel and then a filter paper. Okay? If you were doing this at large scale, of course uses drainDroyd for that, and then drainDroyd would be perfect for that kind of purpose, but I think we got it. I mean, that’s how simple it is, guys, it’s really not really not that difficult.
Randall Thompson 46:06
And this is just to make a one off batch,
Dr. Jon 46:08
then make a one off. That’s try it. Yeah, you can send them the sample, you could send the sample to us, we’ll run it for you. But, but if you do that, I’m going to be looking for all of the unknowns So I’m gonna tell you, Hey, you got a lot of unknowns in there and things like that. So that that’s, I’m gonna turn this off now and go back to our original position.
Randall Thompson 46:27
Okay. So as we go through there, sorry for that. That was kind of fun. Actually. We we had a little bit of technical stuff here. Usually we do this right at the lab. We were talking about doing it in in the lab itself. But you’re here Here we are. All right. Bam, Bam. Okay, here we go. All right. So my cup. Hey, okay. Now working. I thought that was awesome. Oh, yeah. Now and so this is a one off. And if somebody wanted to do this, what would they? How much would it cost us for that little setup there? Oh, you got
Dr. Jon 47:10
got maybe 1200 1200 you got maybe one to 3000 3000 bucks
Randall Thompson 47:16
something like $3,000 you can do some one off. Yeah, don’t pay.
Dr. Jon 47:20
If you’re gonna eat you might have, like a lot of people might have the, you know, hot plate already, they might have a vacuum pump already. They might have a little bit
Randall Thompson 47:29
you can repurpose all that
Dr. Jon 47:30
Yeah, right. I think so.
Randall Thompson 47:31
So I think that that’s good. What if you want to do this at high scale at scale?
Dr. Jon 47:37
Randall Thompson 47:37
Do you have slides on that or something? We can just talk?
Dr. Jon 47:40
Yeah, we can just talk about that. I mean, okay. So if you’re going to do you know, multi kilos per time, you’re gonna need to have a large you know, reactor, which is a 50 liter reactor that’s a stirred reactor that has a heater cooler on it. Okay. And also has a could you get that hooked up for him. Okay,
Randall Thompson 48:02
why are you worried about my arm?
Dr. Jon 48:03
No I just I just
Randall Thompson 48:04
he’s worried about me. Look at that. First time for everything.
Dr. Jon 48:08
No, maybe we should get these things on a little. A little stand that goes right here.
Randall Thompson 48:13
No, these are more fun. Okay, I was able to boom. Yeah. I didn’t I didn’t hit you. I thought about it, but okay, I didn’t.
Dr. Jon 48:22
Um, yeah, yeah. So all the acid is acetic acid guys. That’s uh, yep. And no, it wasn’t sulfuric. We didn’t use any sulfuric acid in there at all. Yeah, sulfuric is really dangerous by the way. In one little splash in your eye. You go blind seriously, so be very careful with the sulfuric acid. Yep. All right.
Randall Thompson 48:45
Sorry. He’s re-micing me. Yeah, I’m far away. Okay, there we are. Oh, and now I’m even further away. Awesome. Okay. So scale. So if we wanted to scale this up, yeah. Could you set this up as kind of a production?
Dr. Jon 48:58
Yeah, yeah. So So you can set it up as production, you’d have to have, here’s the workflow that I think you should have, I mean, you’re gonna have to have some sort of a solvent remover, you’re gonna have to have some sort of way to actually reactor. So, you would you would never do a scale up like that, you know, you you know, so you will want to enclosed Yeah, you’d have a closed reactor and if you’re using solvents, of course, you have to have enough you have to have enough solvent there and you have to have a control area for that solvent along with you know, approved containers and approved storage. And if you’re going to use any type of motors any in there along with that, it has to be a C1D2 two piece of equipment. So you know, doing it on the lab bench is great, but for production purposes, there are other requirements you need to be thinking about. So, you would you would need to have, you know, probably a start a stirred reactor with an air motor or a inert gas, motor And then you’d have to have a heater cooler heater chiller on that, okay, and you can buy those at a number of places, we, we often quote those into a package. If you have for fracTRON, you can use our fracTRON to do all the solvent removal. If you have some rotovaps, you’re going to need to have at least a 50 liter rotovap. And the reason I recommend to have multiple rotovaps or a fracTRON, simply because you’re going to be trying to remove the solvent or you know, in what’s great about the fracTRON is it doesn’t have it it has two different types of falling film, okay, it has a packed bed, fractional falling film, and it has a tube and tube tube and shell falling film. So you can actually isolate one of those vessels, one of those, you know, falling film evaporators and just just circulated in there if you want to use it for a single purpose well, so that it’s super versatile, guys.
Randall Thompson 50:58
Dr. Jon 50:59
Yeah. If so, that would be that, and then you’re going to need to have some way to remove all of the, you know, delta nine from your reaction pot, right? So that means, you know, some sort of chromatography or some sort of THC remediation. Yeah, something along those lines. So, and we have gone over the THC remediation, there’s, there’s lots of different ways to do it. There’s not just one way, you know, you guys can choose a choose whatever it is, but we can also put that together into a package for you. And, you know, you know, see how that goes along with slps. And, and, you know, in training and consulting, to really make it happen.
Randall Thompson 51:42
So what we’ve talked about is being able to put together a kit for you on the smaller side, so it will be small batch kind of thing that you can do. It’ll be a little more than the $3,000 little lab thing that we have here because that’s that’s just a one off. That’s really small. So we talked about that. But then on the large scale side, if you really want to do Delta eight, you’re gonna need, you know, from our equipment side of it, you’re looking at the fracTRON, you’re looking at, you know, you need solvent, you need the heater and the chiller, you need the pure 99. Full chromatography, and all of this can be repurposed for other uses. Post extraction.
Dr. Jon 52:20
Randall Thompson 52:20
Dr. Jon 52:21
right. Yeah, that’s right. True. Yeah, you would use it for other things as well. you’d use it in your isolate process, you would use it obviously, in your winterization process. So you’re going to be using all that stuff. Anyway. So
Randall Thompson 52:30
yeah, and then, you know, we would give you all of our processing methods as well as part of that. And, you know, we list on that if we were to sell that. It’s like just over a million dollars.
Dr. Jon 52:42
Randall Thompson 52:43
That’s, that’s what we do that’s a pretty high throughput though. Yeah. And very high throughput. Oh, my gosh, the fracTRON will do How much?
Dr. Jon 52:49
Yeah, so I mean, you would have, you’d have a you’d be able to, you know, deal with it.
Randall Thompson 52:54
20 gallons an hour.
Dr. Jon 52:56
Randall Thompson 52:56
flow through, right?
Dr. Jon 52:57
right, but you’d be able to deal with it with a very low operation. All costs,
Randall Thompson 53:00
because it’s all automated and then the pure 99 we’re looking at pure 99 pushing through how many liters an hour.
Dr. Jon 53:09
We’re on Well, we’re eight liters an hour or eight liters a minute. Sorry, excuse me.
Randall Thompson 53:12
Eight liters. A minute.
Dr. Jon 53:14
Randall Thompson 53:15
time this times 60. Okay. That’s a big number.
Dr. Jon 53:19
Randall Thompson 53:20
Eight liters a minute on chromatography that is full out optimized for THC remediation, which is what you need for this. And that’s just post THC remediation. Right? So you, you run it, you’ve got it. And that through, that’s huge throughput. So you can get, you know, delta eight at a high level. What, what is, what is the market right now, right now for delta eight?
Dr. Jon 53:30
Correct. You know what I looked on a couple different websites and it was wildly varying. You know, when we we looked at some of the Delta, we bought some Delta eight, and, you know, it wasn’t, it has. I think a lot more Those other things that you see in the, you know, chromatogram those are they have, they affect the aroma and the flavor. So my view of the Delta eight is that it has a definitely has to be formulated. Okay, you just get to put in straight up Delta eight. Well, I don’t know if you really want to do that, because it’s not not going to taste very good. And, you know, and or have no taste at all. I mean, you know, most people want to enjoy the flavor and aroma, right? In order to in order to really enjoy it. So that that’s, uh, yeah, so I don’t know what the what the price is, but I think it’s, it’s well, it’s it’s a lot. Yeah, I’ve heard 10 dollars a gram. That’s what I heard.
Randall Thompson 54:39
You’re Whoo. That’s a lot.
Dr. Jon 54:44
Randall Thompson 54:45
So I’ve even heard higher than that. So yeah. But that’s, that’s a lot and that’s a lot of coin. So there’s a weight there are ways to do that. And you know, for that we’re actually doing a special right now rather than one. $1,005,000 we’re going to do will actually give knock 20% off of that. So show special 799,000 but you have to put in the code. Yes. What’s the code? Dr. Jon rocks,
Dr. Jon 55:13
okay, all right. I think that’s a wrap.
Randall Thompson 55:16
And as an alternate, the other is a Delta eight lab. So you can use Dr. Jon rocks or Delta-8 Lab, use that code and will actually even do that for you. If you’re on and you want it even better, we’ll even give an extra 5% for the first three.
Dr. Jon 55:34
That sounds like a good win. So we can put that together for you. And, you know, basically gave you everything you need with a little sheet. Here’s how you do it. And and we if you send the test and so we can we can actually test it for yourself.
Randall Thompson 55:46
And we’re we do this all the time. So that’s this is our world and we want to make sure we got that for you. And then we’re going to put this other kit together. And so we’ll put we’ll post that somewhere. I don’t know where we would post that.
Dr. Jon 55:57
I think we’re gonna we have a store. We have stores. link that we can put in
Randall Thompson 56:00
we’ll put a smaller kit together for you know the small batch as well. But if you need something, then go on our website, we’ve got our bot and you can try to stump our bot the bot is the bot rocks
Dr. Jon 56:12
the bot rocks. It’s pretty good.
Randall Thompson 56:14
I like it and just ask the questions and then you’ll either get a call from myself or Elijah or q or manual or whatever we can and we can answer more questions for you on the equipment itself. But you know, this works for any extract if you’re a processor right now, let’s let’s go. We can talk about this. All of our gear will interface. We’re co2 on our extraction side. But we have we’re selling our fracTRON and our clearSTILLS and our pure 99 to ethanol processors all day every day. And the drainDroyds I mean, they’re Yeah, it’s all going through fracTRON So anyway, this was a phenomenal show. Lots of tables chromatographs chromatographs chromatographs Yeah, I love that. So so this is good. And I don’t think anyone else I think, did we did we win a prize? Because I don’t think there’s another webinar you guys have sat on where there’s a million dollar offering, didn’t we?
Dr. Jon 56:47
Yeah. We have never, we have never done that. Actually, we never.
Randall Thompson 57:16
And we don’t usually do that. But this is kind of a one off thing. We don’t like to push our product. But we did want to give you a special for being here. And that’s where we’re at.
Dr. Jon 57:26
Randall Thompson 57:26
So didn’t mean to oversell, but this was awesome. There will be a replay. And this was predominantly education. That’s what we like to do.
Dr. Jon 57:36
Randall Thompson 57:36
And we love being here because we’d like to hear your questions. We’d love to interface with you. That’s what we want to do. And again, congratulations to Samuel Gordon. And his Burg falls, Vermont, King of Bourbons. Thank you. And I know did you see Bolden and Jeff chimed in? Vermont.
Dr. Jon 57:53
I saw Yeah. And I wasn’t sure you know, yes. Oh, it’s right. That’s what’s this. You said? vissers. Comes via Vermont. How’s that work? wiser? wiser?
Randall Thompson 58:04
Yeah, they’re their neighbors. It works it’s good Canadian rye is really good okay anyway that it is good. Delta eight Delta eight THC. We worked. We talked about all of these we talked about lists of compounds, cannabis components. cannabidiolic acid, we there was a lot of things that we talked about that I have no idea how to pronounce.
Dr. Jon 58:28
Randall Thompson 58:29
Dr. Jon 58:31
Randall Thompson 58:31
Yes, Richard, thank you for popping that into me. I did it and I was corrected.
Dr. Jon 58:36
We have a lot of chemists who, who come to our podcast.
Randall Thompson 58:40
Yeah, we do have chemists, investors, farmers, processors, we just we really appreciate you We really appreciate your questions. And just keep bringing them in. Always ask your questions. We convert those into FAQ’s all the time. Live tour CBD jam sessions. We’ve got our calculators use them talk to us. We answered a lot of stuff here. This is really this was good.
Dr. Jon 59:06
We need to put together is like a conversion calculator for Delta eight will work on that one. It’s just kind of thinking out loud, but we’ll do that for sure
Randall Thompson 59:16
Awesome. Thank you for being here, Mike. Really appreciate you. We were a couple over a couple minutes over. But thank you, and sorry if this seemed a little hurried, but we wanted to get through all of that for you today. So thank you for being here, and we’ll see you next time.
Dr. Jon 59:32
Thank you. Take care.
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